DA/SA transition to DAO - Innacurate like me?

This is a discussion on DA/SA transition to DAO - Innacurate like me? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a DA/SA SIG226 in 40 that I love, I can shoot the middle out of the target I have a DAO Kahr K9 ...

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Thread: DA/SA transition to DAO - Innacurate like me?

  1. #1
    Member Array dean1818's Avatar
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    DA/SA transition to DAO - Innacurate like me?

    I have a DA/SA SIG226 in 40 that I love, I can shoot the middle out of the target

    I have a DAO Kahr K9 that I also love....however, I am not so accurate in with it
    especially after shooting the Sig first.

    I shoot at 7 yards.

    I am a SIG fan but really don't believe that SIG offers a viable IWB CCW weapon that I like in DA/SA

    Does anyone else have this problem?

    The Kahr is relaible, and is perfect size for IWB CCW.


    I am considering actually selling my SIG, and getting a K40 or CW40, so that I only have one trigger to learn

    The Kahr at this point is good enough accuracy, for close range, but I definitly dont bring home the targets to show my wife
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  3. #2
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    DAO triggers are not meant to shoot itty bitty holes in targets, they are just meant to shoot and at the fairly close ranges ecountered in most self defense shootings.

    They are a compromise and the lack of accuracy is the biggest compromise.
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    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Kahr has a really smooth DAO trigger. My best advice would be to practice, practice, practice. The Kahr guns can be very accurate.

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    As HotGuns said, your going to give up some accuracy with a DOA gun. Once your first shot is fired with your DA/SA pistol, your shooting SA with a nice crisp let off. DAO you have the longer and heavier pull each time. With practice you can overcome most of it, but you will probably never be quite as accurate as you are with your Sig.
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    With practice, especially in dry fire with snap caps, that DAO trigger will teach you how it likes to be rolled up. I have students that are very accurate with their Kahr's nice triggers. You don't have to manage two different SA/DA triggers when shooting with the off hand, either. My EDC has a nice crisp SA trigger, but it requires more discipline in a tense situation. For a back pocket ambidextrous BUG, I like my PM40.
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    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    DAO triggers are not meant to shoot itty bitty holes in targets, they are just meant to shoot and at the fairly close ranges ecountered in most self defense shootings.

    They are a compromise and the lack of accuracy is the biggest compromise.
    While it's true you wouldn't take a DAO as a competition pistol, with a good DAO such as the HK LEM or the Sig DAK, the compromise is slight at best. Once you learn to move your finger only to the trigger reset and not beyond, it feels just like the trigger on a smooth SA.

    I can put a pretty decent group up at 30 meters, and I'm still fairly new to the world of shooting handguns; I learned how to shoot with rifles.
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    Member Array crabbys44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    DAO triggers are not meant to shoot itty bitty holes in targets, they are just meant to shoot and at the fairly close ranges ecountered in most self defense shootings.

    They are a compromise and the lack of accuracy is the biggest compromise.
    Like the revolver is compromised accuracy or speed wise?
    http://youtu.be/lLk1v5bSFPw 6 reload 6 in less than 3 seconds.
    http://youtu.be/GWSvjgNOJyo 8 rounds in less than 1 second.

    Due to Agency regs, I had to have my P-229 converted to DAO. I still shot 100% out to 25 yards and had sub .3 splits.

    It's easier to shoot consistently with a DAO as it only has one trigger press to learn than a DA/SA. Can it compare to a good 1911? It sure can. It simply depends on your mindset and training.
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    Distinguished Member Array skysoldier29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    DAO triggers are not meant to shoot itty bitty holes in targets, they are just meant to shoot and at the fairly close ranges ecountered in most self defense shootings.

    They are a compromise and the lack of accuracy is the biggest compromise.
    Not completely true. I can put one big hole in the center of the target at 20 yards with my SIG P250. I do have the trigger down pat as I have over 10k rounds through it. One just needs to practice with what ever weapon they choose to carry.

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    I went from my Sig P229, Taurus PT709, and Springfield Armory EMP 9mm to my S&W Bodyguard 380 and Keltec PF9 both with DAO triggers and can honestly say I suck with both of these pistols I can hit the target and but it will not be anywhere as great as when I am shooting my other guns I just got to go out there and practice practice practice !!! God Bless

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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    This is apples to oranges. If a P226 fits you well, the Kahr is probably too small, and all else being equal, will be a greater challenge to shoot well. I set aside my Kahr, and eventually traded it, because I could just as easily carry a full-sized 1911, which I could shoot well without conscious thought, or a J-frame or K-frame revolver, also shooting them well without conscious thought. To shoot the Kahr well required me to consciously remember to place my trigger finger on the face of the trigger in a unique way, and press the trigger in a unique way. I felt the effort to reach unconscious competence with a Kahr to simply not be worth the trouble, as it could never be my duty pistol, due to regulations. (I had "grandfathered" my 1911 pistols, and my only other choices were specified .40 larger pistols.)

    Today, over a decade later, I am using one of those specified .40 duty pistols, the P229. NOW we are talking apples to apples. I own three DAKs, a form of DAO, and two DA/SA P229s. The DA/SAs cannot be readily converted to DAK, as they have stainless steel frames. My accuracy results? About even. Apples to apples. Right-handed, I tend to do better with DAK. Left-handed, I tend to do a bit better with DA/SA.

    We do all train to shoot with each hand, no?

    Edited to add: I am not being critical of Kahr! I just did not feel it was worth the trouble to learn a totally different weapon system, that required unique (to me) manipulation, and fit my hand differently. If a Kahr fits, then it is a fine defensive weapon. My wife still has hers.
    Last edited by Rexster; June 1st, 2011 at 04:33 AM. Reason: typo, redundant word, and a clarification

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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    I must respectfully disagree with the assertion that DAO fire is a compromise. When I want to shoot the smallest possible groups FAST, under dynamic conditions, with my usual "primary" right hand, I select a lugged-barrel 4"+ GP100, and shoot it DA for every shot. Slow fire? Well, much as I like to try to shoot small groups from a sandbag rest with a nice 1911, or all-SA with an all-stainless steel P229, I am generally better off with DA, with the sixgun. The GP100 grip and trigger dimensions seem to have been designed by a long-lost twin brother, and I made it a point to really learn DA shooting during my rookie year as an LEO in 1984, when I could carry any handgun I wanted, as long as it was a DA revolver of reputable manufacture and passed inspection. I am no Jerry Miculek, but I do understand why he likes DA revolvers.

    As old, chronic injuries start to plague my formerly stronger right hand/wrist/arm/shoulder, SA shooting has become my compromise, as it becomes more difficult to pull a DA trigger as many times as I once could, so I use SA and DA/SA weapons more often.

    FWIW, before I was an LEO, I was a 1911 guy, and thought revolvers were quaint relics that were on the way out. Now, I value both revolvers and autos for different purposes. I am realistic about the auto's advantages while patrolling the mean streets. I am also realistic about both DA and SA shooting; either can work well, when one trains for it. I believe some folks are hard-wired better for DA, and some for SA. In my case, my caveman right hand and arm seem wired for DA, and my left hand for SA, with my generally more skilled left hand better able to handle the transition from DA to SA.

    Moreover, this post started off regarding SIGs and Kahrs. I don't consider the Kahr a true DAO, anyway, as the striker is partially cocked with each reciprocation of the slide.
    Last edited by Rexster; June 1st, 2011 at 05:23 AM. Reason: pruned excess, comma splice, and clarification

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    While I have no doubt that the DAO trigger can be mastered with lots of practice, its been my observation that most people will not spend the time or the effort to do so.

    I've seen the scene play out hundreds of times. A new shooter gets a DAO and cant hit the broad side of a barn. They get frustrated and it gets worse. Then, someone offers them a different style trigger that they like and they immediately start shooting better. They often sell the DAO and get something else.

    I've even seen it on the police range, more than once. Guys having a hard time qualifying with a DAO and eventually moving to something else. Its one of the very reasons that we moved to Glocks. They figured if you couldn't master that enough to qualify then you needed to sit behind a desk where the most dangerous part of your day was trying to drinking hot coffee without spilling it in your lap.

    Something else to think about.
    You gentlemen that frequent the gun boards, for the most part I wouldn't really consider "average" shooters. Many of you are like me, I will not be intimidated by a mere gun and I will master it and shoot in enough that I could do it without conscious thought.That is not the mindset of most people. They will simply choose to like something or not like it and move on.

    How many people shoot 30,000 rounds a month like Miculek? Not many. They don't live with the gun, they just carry one and some of them are lucky to shoot one magazine a year through it.

    Most of them will be like the OP...and move on.
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  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    HotGuns said it well

    much like health care today--those who want to loose weight want it off NOW--staple my stomach or give me a pill ( or an excuse for my boss).
    WHAT--you expect me to do something for myself and diet and exercise...no way

    there is such an abundance to choose from today that there actually is something for everyone.
    but the chance of a newbie getting it on their 1st purchase is astronomical. so they try this; trade it for that; read about X and try that also...

    i grew up in the 60's. there was generally 3 choices: ok (least expensive) better (mid priced) and best ( you a doctor to afford that)
    we learned to use what we had--figure it out, make it work the best it can, the best you were able to.

    today people spend too much time looking for what may be better . had they invested that time in what they had--they likely would have found that it works just fine.
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