.357's "Deafening roar and blinding flash"

[Rollo]

Although I am quite happy with my current .357 defensive load (Corbon 110g JHP) I spend the majority of my workday bored so I have been researching other possibilities. One thing I really like about the the Corbon 110g is that more then any other .357 round I have tried it seems like it recoils more like a .45 (a push back) as opposed to .40 or .357 sig (muzzle flip). Even out of a 2 1/2 inch barrel the velocity is impressive and when fires it has a very satisfying throaty boom. During the course of my research I have found that a very popular round for use in short barrel .357's is a 158g SWCHP 38 special +P. I keep reading that the "The blast from a .357 is so over whelming that it will disorient the shooter almost as much as the person on the reviving end when being fired in a enclosed space" so some choose to downgrade to the 38 special +p loading.

The thing I find strange about this is that the 12 gauge shot gun (by many peoples standard) is one of the most recommended home defense weapons in history. This got me wondering if a 12 gauge shot gun blast was actually less intense then a .357 blast as no one ever seemed to mention the buck and roar of a 12 gauge. This lead me to do a bit of searching and come to find out that a .357 mag and 12 gauge shotgun are both around 160 DB. More interesting is that all service caliber hand guns seem to fall between 150-162 DB's making them more or less equally damaging. I couldn't light/flash data on the 2 but it makes sense that the .357 isn't going to be any more intense then the 12g. The only thing I could think of is that the blast of a 12 gauge is going of 10-14 inches farther away from the shooter then a .357 (because of barrel lengths/size of the weapon) but that doesn't seem like it would make THAT much of a difference. So, why does the .357 have the reputation of a hand held 5 shot flash bang?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[atctimmy]

My only guess is that in the old days the .357 was loaded much hotter than it is now. Old reputations die hard.

[Eagleks]

Mine is 7 , but the flash from mine ..... would blind anyone if it were dark out or low light.
At the range, everyone quit shooting and came down to see what it was I was shooting..... LOL ... because of the bang and flash. It's a loud boy. Ironically, I think that gun is much louder and definitely more flash than my 5 shot. No one can figure out why.

[claude clay]

from some old re-loading books they were indead hoter. faster.'if you have a blackhawk or a marlin you can play with the oldies but honestly, unless you are hunting and need that extra 25 yards, why stress your equipment.

if flash is your thing---a cz-52 at dusk should satisify ua

[sdprof]

From these two videos, I'd say the 12ga makes the bigger visual impact.

.357


12ga


either way, I would not want to be on the viewing/receiving end

[gasmitty]

The problem here is that the sound level measurement does not describe all that your senses perceive. If I told you I would hit you with a bowling ball with a force of 100 pounds, would that bother you? How about if I said the duration of that event would last one millisecond? How about if I said the duration of the event was half a second? It's still 100 pounds, right?

Sound level measurements given in just decibels are virtually meaningless without defining frequency bandwidth and duration. A better assessment would be your own eyes and ears to discern which might be more intense, offensive or damaging.

[glockman10mm]

Rollo, what you are seeing is that a bigger bore weapon will make a "boom", where the 357 mag in its lightest fastest loadings makes a piercing "crack". The 44 spl, 45 Colt or ACP, and even the 44 magnum do not have the ear splitting noise that a 357 does. One reason is velocity, and another is the smaller bore releasing all that pressure at the same time from a smaller opening.

The 158 grn bullets slowed down to a medium mag load, or even 38spl velocities is all you really need.

Also the flash from a magnum is due to powder that did not get burnrd in the bore. A magnum uses a very slow burning powder to achieve maximum velocity, and a short barrel makes it worst.

[Rollo]

The problem here is that the sound level measurement does not describe all that your senses perceive. If I told you I would hit you with a bowling ball with a force of 100 pounds, would that bother you? How about if I said the duration of that event would last one millisecond? How about if I said the duration of the event was half a second? It's still 100 pounds, right?

Sound level measurements given in just decibels are virtually meaningless without defining frequency bandwidth and duration. A better assessment would be your own eyes and ears to discern which might be more intense, offensive or damaging.

Well, that's part of the reason I said "Intense" as the data I found idd not take into account all of the variables you found. . I have fired a 12 gauge shotgun and I have fired a .357 both with hearing protection and I personally imagine that the 12 gauge shotgun in a enclosed area with no hearing protection was would be more intense then a .357 under the same circumstance but that may have been due to the recoil going through my body as opposed to the actual sound.

[stanislaskasava]

Slightly off topic:

A sound that is 160dB is twice as loud as a sound that is 150dB. Is there some reason that those two sounds would be 'more or less equally damaging'? I think louder sounds do more damage, especially one that is twice as loud...

Also, a revolver has a gap between cylinder and barrel, while a shotgun does not. The blast comes out in all directions, while in a shotgun it is mostly coming out the end of the barrel and going away (in addition to the much longer barrel). I wouldn't expect them to be the same at all, even if they both measure ≈160dB. Measurement is subjective, as well, depending on the position and distance of the meter, and environment (indoor, outdoor, et cetera).

[bmcgilvray]

The .357 Magnum is loud and has a pretty vicious crack that gets right in one's ear. I'm old fashioned and like my .357 Magnum ammunition best when served up in larger framed revolvers rather than the 5-shot snubs so popular these days. An N-Frame Smith & Wesson is hard to beat for full-house, "real deal" .357 Magnum loads.

[shockwave]

There's absolutely no question about this. When I'm on the line at the range, and somebody opens up with a .357, you know it immediately. Everything up to and through .45 is pretty much noise. The .357s - and .44 mags - are an order of magnitude louder.

With my own .357s, I notice the muzzle blast much more than with smaller rounds. So there is a concern about using this round in a HD scenario - permanent hearing loss and tinnitus are quite possible outcomes. On the other hand, you have to figure that a situation requiring the use of your firearms inside your home would be so adrenaline charged as to have you in a tunnel vision, reduced hearing state already. So I arm the pistols and shotgun on that basis.

We've seen a number of threads here this year talking about statistics on "threat stopped with first shot," and the .357 and 12 gauge percentages do not disappoint on that score. Even if you do wind up disorienting yourself with the major firepower, chances are things will be to your advantage downrange.

[Old School]

My all time favorite photo of the .357 muzzle flash.....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...PL._SS500_.jpg

[BugDude]

I love boom, flash, and recoil...especially out of a snubbie .357 Mag. But I'm weird.

[Pioneer]

In the event of a self defense shooting, because of a massive adrenalin dump and other physiological reasons, humans experience auditory exclusion, as well as time distortion and a form of "tunnel vision." That is the body fully engaged in "fight or flight" which tends to dampen the senses. Talk to folks who have been involved in sudden self defense situations and you will learn that most did not hear the report of the firearm, nor did they feel the recoil.

[10thmtn]

In the event of a self defense shooting, because of a massive adrenalin dump and other physiological reasons, humans experience auditory exclusion, as well as time distortion and a form of "tunnel vision." That is the body fully engaged in "fight or flight" which tends to dampen the senses. Talk to folks who have been involved in sudden self defense situations and you will learn that most did not hear the report of the firearm, nor did they feel the recoil.

That may be true, but you can still damage your ears, even if your brain did not "hear" the sound.

Maybe one of the reasons for the "legendary" stopping power of the .357 Mag is the "flash bang" effect? Sort of like a stun grenade?