Consistency of carry weapon and holster method

Consistency of carry weapon and holster method

This is a discussion on Consistency of carry weapon and holster method within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Having been on various defense- and firearm-related forums for a few years now, it seems that most CCWers have an assortment of sidearms and holsters ...

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Thread: Consistency of carry weapon and holster method

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Consistency of carry weapon and holster method

    Having been on various defense- and firearm-related forums for a few years now, it seems that most CCWers have an assortment of sidearms and holsters from which to choose, depending on attire and other considerations. Sometimes it's a large, high cap pistol IWB; at other times a snubbie in the pocket; etc.

    While "options" are a good thing in most instances, I'm not so sure it is a good practice when it comes to self defense. Trying to remember where your gun is while under stress is not a good thing. I read an account of a plain clothes officer who carried his sidearm at different locations on his body depending on attire - when confronted with an armed suspect, the officer literally had to pat himself down to locate his gun! Fortunately, his partner shot the suspect and likely saved his life.

    The lesson learned is...consistency. I do NOT favor having options for different modes of dress. I carry the same way, all the time, regardless of dress or other considerations. This means that I have to accept that my carry weapons and methods will be driven by the most restrictive situations that I will face. However, I feel that is a good trade-off for always carrying weapons in the same way, on the same places on my body, and with virtually the same manual of arms.

    For me, social and work considerations mean I must be discreet in my carry. After trying many different permutations of guns and holsters, I found that only two methods worked for me ALL the time - the Smartcarry, and pocket carry. Of those two methods, I find pocket carry more comfortable. I currently pocket carry two small autos - a PM9 as a primary, and a LCP as a secondary. While the merits and pitfalls of pocket carry have been debated ad naseum, I find that it allows me to carry the same way consistently...and that is a significant advantage. Having one gun on each side solves the ambidextrous access issue, and it also solves the low capacity of smaller pocket guns with a "NY reload."

    So - if you carry different guns (especially with different manuals of arms), in different holsters, in different locations, in different situations...I would suggest you give some thought to - What could I carry consistently no matter what?

    I'm not saying that pocket carry is the answer to this question for everyone. For women, for example, it tends not to work, since pockets for women rarely can hold anything larger than a small cell phone. My larger point is to try and find that sweet spot that works all the time - for you.

    Now, I know there are a lot of folks that like variety in guns for the sake of variety. They like guns, and enjoy carrying different guns. While I understand this sentiment, if you are going to do this, at least use guns with the same manual of arms.

    Variety may be the spice of life - but not when it comes to defending it.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array mwhartman's Avatar
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    I'm new to firearms and carrying. Your point on consistency sure makes sense to me. From what I read and learned most folks do have different pistos and rigs that they carry. It seems though that while they may use a different gun (caliber) or holster, typically, they carry in the same position.
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144

    Ruger owners check our sister forum http://rugerpistolforums.com a great site to share and learn about your Ruger pistols.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    if you are trying to remember where your gun is than you are insufficiently trained to be having so much.
    thin your choice down to 3 and get them down pat. and if you have further needs, introduce them one at a time. get it right or leave it at home.

    honestly it is rather a zen thing in that if you train and than let your mind wander, touch different items--notice that your hand will pick it up proper and your finger will go to the controls proper. this is a beginning step towards point shooting as your hand and arm well remember how to point after you have been doing it for thousands of repetitions over mant years. or even months--trust your body to do its thing...you play baseball or hockey; if you though on a conscious level you would seldom connect to hit a fast pitch or intercept a puck. trust in your subconscious, that is to say; trust after it has proved itself.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    For me, for my current level of proficiency, I favor strong consistency.

    My main HD pistol is a full-sized XDm9. That pistol is also my "class gun."

    My true-EDC - a gun that I carry 99% of the time - is an XDm9 3.8 Compact.

    I use the same ammo in both, favoring the Federal HST, 147 gr. In just these two guns, I've put well over 1000 of this cartridge downrange since November of last year, including in low-light/no-light.

    My typical "class" holster is an OWB, a Raven Phantom. In training, I have it set up at 3-o'clock, with approximately the same cant I have, when I carry. 95% of the time, when I carry, I use a Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro - about 4% of the time I'm using either a standard canted MTAC or a standard CBST-Delux, again worn in the same 3-o'clock position, with the same cant. I can't really alter the way I dress, so I've picked a firearm and gear that can help me achieve the level of discretion that I need.

    1% of the time, I'm pocket-carry or IWB with my alternate: a Kahr PM9 (fed with Speer's 147 gr. GDHP - this particular gun simply feeds the Speer better than the Federal), which, lacking a true-sub-compact single-stack alternative to my EDC, I chose because it is a no-fuss DAO. In these rare instances, I'm already behind the 8-ball, compromised by my chosen carry method as well as the fact that the gun is smaller and therefore harder to handle (and with less capacity). This is offset by the fact that usually, the situations which demand my carry of this alternate also sees less risk...or, on the flip side, that I have cranked up my awareness and readiness to-compensate.

    In returning to the topic of this thread, I do try to be as consistent as I can. My gear, for the vast majority of times, is in the same position, and I also train with my EDC-concealment gear/setup. I recently attended a holster/draw workshop specifically so that I can find out if my EDC setup is truly viable. Furthermore, I have already signed-up to repeat a combat pistolcraft course that I took earlier this spring, this time running it with my usual daily wardrobe and using my true-EDC (my previous attendance at that course was also the first time I'd undertaken any professional training [again, I came to the "gun world" in November], and I wanted myself to focus on basic techniques, rather than worrying about holstering - so I used my "class" pistol and my OWB Raven; this time, my goals are different, as I am at a different level of proficiency now).

    Currently, I'm a beginner. I have but really only one tool. I feel that it is my obligation to use it well.



    ----

    I also keep my support gear in the same location, too.

    The cell phone, my flashlight, my spare magazine, my knives. They're always in the same place.

    I saw first-hand what happens when people get flustered in training/class, and decide to try to shove their cell-phone into their pistol's magazine well on emergency reloads. Comical in that situation , but probably decidedly less funny when facing a BG in the real world. When I first saw that happen to a classmate, I made a promise to myself that I would see to it that little blooper *never* happens to me.
    MotorCityGun likes this.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array TWO GUNS's Avatar
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    My primary carry gun is always at 4:30 no matter what gun it is. I carry my BUG in my rear or front weakside pocket. My primary gun does not have a safety on it.
    Have Fun and Shoot Straight !!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array GlockJS's Avatar
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    I guess since i don't have the gun budget most here have, I only have 3(soon to be 4) guns. My HD gun Glock 21, my 90% EDC Glock 26, and my "can't dress around my gun" gun Kel Tec PF9. So really, unless I'm putting the PF9 in my pocket, my carry gun is always in the same spot.
    Glock 26 9mm, Ruger LCR .357mag

    "Protect yourself at all times."

    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."-Clint Smith

  7. #7
    Member Array Cattus Vir's Avatar
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    I only have two I carry, one for everything but shorts. SA XDsc 9mm IWB and 380BG for pocket carry.

  8. #8
    Member Array Willieboy's Avatar
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    Excellent thread 10thmtn. I agree with you 100%. I'm in Texas and I almost have to vary wardrobe as seasons change. That said, my goal is to carry as much gun as I can conceal. I carry either Glocks or Kahrs and they have a similar manual of arms, i.e., no safeties, no hammers, etc. The triggers though are very different and I'm bothered by that. On the plus side though, if it's a Glock day, it's also cool enough to carry a G19 and a G26. This gives me a NY reload and the benefit of being able to carry a high capacity magazine that will fit either gun. On Kahr days, I can carry the PM9 and a K9 with similar benefits.

    My bug is always AIWB at 2 o'clock and the primary is always IWB at 4 o'clock.

    Thanks for your post. I think you've got this CC stuff figured out and your post will help others think through their strategy.

    Finally, thank you for your service sir. It is much appreciated!

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Consistency in your carry gun is the first step to insuring you have the greatest chance of survivability. There can be a variety within certain limits such as going from a compact Glock to a sub compact Glock or caliber changes within the same make and model and similar situations. All of the controls are identical in placement, the triggers are nearly identical, and the sights can be set the same.

    Once you throw in variable in controls, trigger pull and break, and sights you are assuring yourself of added response time on at least one if not all of your choices.

    A simple example of this is the person that drives two cars and one has the gear selector on the steering column and the other has it on the center console, when switching between the two vehicles you tend to occasionally reach toward the wrong location for the gear selector. Not a life threatening event but it shows your muscle memory is on autopilot and an error is made, the same happens with different guns.

    Concealed carry self defense has by nature many variables. Your lighting, weather, noise, unknown number of attackers, surrounding conditions and innocent obstructions, and even your clothing, so with all of that taking the brain processing in a self defense situation wouldn't it just make sense to eliminate a whole other source of decision making events?

    All that said, there is NOTHING wrong with multiple carry guns carried at the same time as long as the primary is constant and the back up is also. Think about it, if you had to go to a back up chances are that the reason is that something no good has already happened and now your going to plan "B" want to throw in another decision tree for your subconscious muscle memory to work through?
    MotorCityGun and 10thmtn like this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Put simply:

    I carry the same thing(s) in the same place(s) nearly 99% of the time. Muscle memory WILL save your life!
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    If you train with your guns enough then this shouldn't be a problem. While walking I can tell what type of gun that I have and were at.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    If you train with your guns enough then this shouldn't be a problem. While walking I can tell what type of gun that I have and were at.
    The issue isn't whether you know, it's whether or not your midbrain (aka the "animal" / instinctual part of the brain) knows when you switch from forebrain to midbrain under high stress. It's very easy to forget everything you think you know when someone literally scares the hell out of you!
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    The issue isn't whether you know, it's whether or not your midbrain (aka the "animal" / instinctual part of the brain) knows when you switch from forebrain to midbrain under high stress. It's very easy to forget everything you think you know when someone literally scares the hell out of you!
    Once again. If you forget then you have failed in training. The same thing when I go from my holster that I use for work that is OWB with a thumb break on it to a IWB holster without the thumb break holster on it.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  14. #14
    Member Array Cattus Vir's Avatar
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    Muscle memory, if you practice your draws, should be automatic. Just like finger off the trigger, muzzle in a safe direction ect..

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattus Vir View Post
    Muscle memory, if you practice your draws, should be automatic. Just like finger off the trigger, muzzle in a safe direction ect..
    That's basically what I meant.

    If you move your holster or carry position around, it will negatively affect your draw time, if you even put your hand in the right place. It took me a long time to be comfortable drawing from appendix rather than my traditional 4 O'Clock.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

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