Wife went to the range with me this morning. She likes the Ruger MkII (.22LR) and the Taurus 85 (.38Spl), but has found a desire for her "own" semi. I did not start this...it was her idea.
She likes the grip on the XD40sc with the full-sized mag/sleeve (making it a Service grip) and the grip of my 1911. The 1911 is "too heavy." So...it was a trip to see how she liked the XD40sc.
In her defense, all I own in .40S&W is 180 gr. FMJ or JHP. Anywhooo...the look on her face after she loosed the first round of FMJ was enough. She finished the mag, but laid the XD40sc down and said, "get that away from me!" She then shot the 1911...and did better, though she said it still had more recoil than she was comfortable with.
So, those of you who have shot both 9mm and .40S&W, can you compare the felt recoil or, if you have friends/family with "wispy" hands and arms and who shoot, give their perceptions?
(I have shot both, but it's been a long time since I fired any 9x19. Even then I didn't think about it much...'cuz I'm comfortable with most weps that I can get my short hands around.)
We are going to try to get to a range this weekend and rent a couple of models, but they don't have an XD9. She picked out some guns that feel good in her hands, but they are in .40S&W (SW99c...they make a 9mm, too, I think) and .45ACP (Glock single-stack...I forget the number)...and the XD. I suggested a steel-framed 9mm like CZ-75 or variant, but, as usual, my thoughts don't always get her attention.
Oh...she did have her first ND with a revo... The round landed about 2ft in front of her. I knew it was likely to happen and told her to accomplish her task a different way. She didn't listen. She now has had a refresher course about listening to safety concerns at the range...or she can go by herself!
LOL ... Well amost any 9mm she will find more comfortable on the recoil side , but if i may suggest a thing to you both ... Have a trusted shooter ( NOT you ) give her a refresher course on grip and presentation of the weapon . Some times our women dont listen to us well , and we dont listen to them either .. My little bride handles the recoil of a 3" .45 just fine and i dont think she would weigh 100 lbs soaking wet with an anvil in each pocket LOL .. But a friend who is also a firearms instructor did her basics on range work ect .. it worked a lot better than me trying to .
Indeed after reading her comments on the 40 and 45 - she would I suspect really quite like a 9mm like SW99 - I occasionally carry mine but also hope to get my wife onto that, to upgrade her from her Bersa 380.
40 has a lot of recoil and muzzle whip for a auto i personally find it uncomfortable to shoot and am not impressed .. to me that says a lot counting i like to shoot a 500 mag
My wife use to have a Ruger P89 (9mm). She liked it until she tried my Glock 23. She didn't like the 40 recoil, but liked the gun. So we traded her Ruger P89 in for a Glock 19 (9mm). She was very happy with the change, and has no trouble with the recoil.
DizTbone...as I read through your post, it looks like you answered your own question. I'd say her opinions and experience on the range so far point at the XD in 9mm.
About anything in 9mm will be managable for recoil, including the sub-compact XD or Glock 26.
I have to admit that your mention of an ND with a revolver raises concern about her gun-handling skills. With that in mind, I second *******'s suggestion that she get some basic pistol training from a third party.
Kimber has come out with a new 9mm 1911 designed for carry, called the Aegis. It has aluminum frame and weighs 25 ounces, has an 8 round magazine, night sights and a "carry bevel" dehorning treatment. I think it is expensive, but I'll bet it would suit your wife perfectly if she likes a 1911 grip and 9mm caliber:
I now only have 40 and 45acp. I used to have a Glock 26 (9mm). I fired it side by side with a friends service model XD in 40 S&W. I found the recoil to be quite a bit more manageable in my little 9mm Glock over the larger 40 XD. I would bet any platform she likes, whether it be; Glock, XD, CZ, HK, SIG, Ruger, Taurus, S&W or anything else would suit her just fine.
Have you thought about a compact 380 like a Bersa Thunder or the SIG 232? I love the 232s and the all black models have an alloy frame to cut down on the weight.
I just went through this very thing with my wife. We started with a S&W 642, recoil was fine with light loads but trigger pull was way too much for her to shoot accurately. She liked the Beretta 380, but the slide was too difficult to operate. She did not like the recoil of my Kahr PM9, just too much.
She ended up with a GLOCK 26 (9mm). Its small enough for her to conceal, (I think with a lot of women if they have to wear some kind of dumb looking clothing to conceal, they won't even bother to carry). She can easily operate the slide, easily load the clip with the depressor they provide and she manages the recoil fine. She is enjoying shooting with me and is shooting the gun very well. This was our first Glock and I am very impressed. I think the Glock 26 has a very good balance of size and felt recoil.
My wife likes her Bersa Ultra Compact 9mm. She will fire my SIG P239 in 357SIG, but has no desire to fire more than one magazine. The other pistol that you should have your wife look at is the CZ 2075 RAMI in 9mm. This was what my wife really wanted, but we couldn't find one the day we bought her Bersa UC9. The RAMI comes in 9mm and .40 and also comes with an aluminium or polymer frame. Weight is 25+ oz. for the aluminium frame and 23+ oz. for the polymer frame.
RR & JimmyC: You are preachin' to the choir! I have a couple of friends who would fit the bill for a refresher on safety and hangun basics. Now, if I can just schedule one of them. One of them is an IPSC range officer. He should do nicely. I did mention the to her ND in the context of discussing a few other things I noted... She's really embarrassed. ( I remember my one near-ND VIVIDLY even after ten years. ) Perhaps I'll wait a couple days before suggesting outside help. That's still a sensitive spot. :22a:
AS for the .40 being whippy... I'll agree and I'm not afraid of the stock side of much... Maybe this a good reason to buy myself a 9mm, too.:bier: Instead of listening to the gruff about "stopping power" I can say, "well, I have the ammo 'cuz my wife shoots it...and it is more cost effective for range ammo than my preferred caliber...the .45ACP.":wink:
She really liked the feel of the SW99. I hope she can get to shoot a rental. I'd like her to be able to handle a CZ...either the RAMI or the P01...and the Glocks, too. I don't know that I've seen the Bersa UC9 in a store...though she liked the feel of the Thunder .380.
Unfortunately, the Kimber and some other really good options are out of the budget...without a really good deal. I'll check with my local dealer tomorrow on some pricing. That should help narrow the field, too.
I'd like to know that she likes it before laying out the cash... If she can't shoot her primo choice first, I guess I could always sell it... or keep it for myself. :danceban:
It is interesting to note that, though she likes .38Spl, she hated my 9x18Mak...until today. We didn't take it...but she said that she'd shoot it if it had a more pronounced "thingy to keep the slide from cutting my hand. It just goes 'pop' compared to the XD40."
It looks like my action plan is set... Take a list of the nines that have been recommended and see what we can get her mits around.
Thanks guys...
Michael
P.S. As a fellow said on C-Span the other night, "The record will remain open..." until she makes a pick and I make a purchase.
A weapon that I think would be perfect would be the Kahr K9. the grip is outstanding and would tend to favor medium to small hand sizes. In a 9mm with the steel gun it has very low recoil compared to the P9 polymer version. It's very accurate and Very concealable. It's also one of the most reliable guns Kahr has ever made. It's an outstanding CCW. The only down side is that it isn't really light weight like the polymer version. I have a 1911 and I think the grip on the K9 is very similar, but better, especially considering the rubber grips. They help with the recoil too.
if she liked the feel of the XD .40SC, you should definitely try the XD 9SC.
The bersa/firestorm line is great, too. If for some reason she doesn't like the 9mm, i'd definitely look at the Bersa Thunder .380. It's a real shooter. My fiance loves shooting that thing.
anyways, good luck and congrats on getting her into shooting!
Exm-- It's been an interesting journey. When we started dating six years ago, she and her whole family were rabid anti's...except her grandfather who claims his right to be the godfather. Heck, he even gripes about me owning weapons. Not for cause, but just because. Oh...he has his CHL. Hmmmm...double standard? He even gripes about a son-in-law of 25 years who is an avid hunter. So...in one ear...and straight to file 13.
Her reasoning for hating weps is a little better than most. The only one she had seen was a loaded shotgun aimed at her and held by her ex-husband. Yeah...that'll make you either very afraid or very angry.
I got her started by giving her the same schtick I gave my mom when I moved back home for a time. "It's gonna be here. It's gonna be loaded. You need to know how to unload it and how not to make it go bang." Afterward, I borrowed a buddy's .22LR pistol and got her going on that. It didn't look anything like that shottie she had faced down. Anyway, she found that she enjoyed it...and she was good at it. Then...she tried the revolver (2" .38Spl) and my Makarov. She liked the snub, but the Mak bit her.
Move forward a few months... The local police chief was caught doing ill when he refused a drug task force commander's request to arrest one of the chief's associates. He got hinky and got fired...then went on a mini-rampage about the elem. school and his home. We were here at the time...and as I have a policy of proactively making nice with LEOs, he had been a guest in our home. Well, I strapped on the Mak and she was scared enough to strap on the snubbie. That was the day she learned a few lessons about handgun combat. She's never been opposed to anything weapons related since (well...she still doesn't like shotguns. I can't say that I blame her.)
If she feels comfy with the 9x19, we'll try to go that way. I have handled the Kahr CW9 (had an attractive price, too!) and the PM40(ouch!)...but not the K9. The Kahrs that I know of seem to run pretty good...though the PM40 took a trip back to the factory to get that way. The back up position is the Bersa .380...or maybe it should be the first position? Get her used to it then trade up? I guess my reasoning for pushing the 9x19 is 1)a little more powerful cartridge (if the Hi-Power is good enough for the SAS...), 2) a little better ammo availability than .380, and 3) a little better pricing on ammo...and 4) more platforms from which to choose.
Chris...it should be an interesting day, indeed!
I guess the biggest thing I have learned in all this is that overcoming fear takes a long time and requires a desire to do so on the part of the frightened party. The only position to be pushed is safety. Everything else she's come to on her own time.
My wife hates my GLOCK 19 (9mm) but loves her Sig P239 in .357... Goes to show you that recoil is truely "Perceived".
Does she need "Carry" size or just a comfortable gun...
The SIG 239 is nice size for females as is the GLOCK 19/23 (9mm)/(.40), The single stack GLOCK .45 you were refering to is the GLOCK 36. Kahr makes some nice small concealable guns but I've noticed they may not be as comfortable...
BTW, I'm impressed that she handles the .38 well... Even most shooters I know don't usually like to shoot it more then they have too...
Having just picked up my two new babies, CZ SP-01 and the RAMI in polymer I am naturally a leeeeeetle bit prejudiced.....
Having said that the RAMI in 9mm is probably a good choice. If possible see if you can try both the steel and the polymer framed version. I personally feel the polymer frame version has a little better recoil absorption for a smaller framed hand but its a suck it and see thing.
Other thing is to try with both the 10 round and 14 round mag, the 14 drops sufficiently down that you get a full hand grip as opposed to possible pinkie flutter with the 10 round.
See attached shot of the RAMI with the longer mag to gauge. View attachment 2606
Does she need a carry sized wep? No. But...she thinks they are cute and has designs on getting her carry permit. I suggested something with a full grip and 4" bbl., but since I am the husband, she must try to have her own head. The range trip will tell the end of that tale.
She met me at the toy store this morning where she handled the Bersa Thunder .380, again, the CZ-83, the Kahr CW9 and a Walther P1. She like the CW9 best of those, but still likes the SW99c. Hopefully the range will have an SW99 or P99 she can try.
If she holds out for the SW99c after shooting some 9x19's, I may try to find a 9mm plinker for now and let the SW99 be for Christmas. Hmm...do I want a CZ75SA, a Hi-Power or an XD9? That's an easier question to answer: ALL OF THE ABOVE. Heck, I may get the CW9 for me...who knows.
LOL ... but if i may suggest a thing to you both ... Have a trusted shooter ( NOT you ) give her a refresher course on grip and presentation of the weapon . Some times our women dont listen to us well , and we dont listen to them either ..
Great advice! My wife wouldn't listen to me either, and I'm an ex cop who has been shooting all of my life, but she considers the kid at the range (OK that's unfair, he's at least 21) to be an expert. Regardless, she's got her permit and her gun and she is a great shot and a great back-up.
'Tbone, I have shot both the XD9 and XD40 and have to say the 9 has less recoil by far. my wife is only 5'1" and 102lbs and has shot both as well. She likes the 9 over the 40 when it comes to recoil. I would definitely recomend the XD9 over the XD40, as well as try the other choices suggested.
PS-wife just read this and said to up that weight since she just ate a HUGE brownie with ice cream.
.....women.... :aargh4:
Ummm...21 y.o.'s are kids... Okay...so I'm only 34, but my mother swears that I was 35 when I was born! :scruntiny:
Shaggy...tnx for the input from your lady. I'm sure the 9mm will be the ticket...
Everytime I think I understand them (the fairer gender)...they change the rules and insist that only they have that right. Fellas, I say we change the rules and get pouty when they don't like it! IT'S A REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!:boese51: :buttkick: :twak: :nutkick:
Kimber has come out with a new 9mm 1911 designed for carry, called the Aegis. It has aluminum frame and weighs 25 ounces, has an 8 round magazine, night sights and a "carry bevel" dehorning treatment. I think it is expensive, but I'll bet it would suit your wife perfectly if she likes a 1911 grip and 9mm caliber:
Only thing I don't care for with my Bersa .380 is the safety and the mag disconnect. It's also a lot thicker than any of the Kahrs which makes it harder for me to conceal it. Having said that, the recoil is almost non-existent and it's extremely accurate.
For CCW, I still like the Kahrs for how thin they are and the fact that there's no mag disconnect or safety. The K9s are rock solid; maybe even a bit heavy.
I actually like the P9 for weight reasons. It is a bit more snappy due to light weight but I think it has to be just about the best all round CCW for someone who wants a smaller, lighter, thinner package.
God Bless
Gideon
PS and I know what you mean about the price. My P9 has the blackened slide and night sights and it was the greater part of $700:blink:
I haven't looked lately at the prices, but a Sig 239 in 9mm or Kahr K9 would probably fit the bill for her nicely. The XD in 9mm would be good as well (and much lower in price), except I've never had first hand experience with it. If Sig still makes their polymer framed guns, that would be quite the deal as well.
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