Youtube Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holster

This is a discussion on Youtube Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holster within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Can everyone shout ... "Trigger Finger Straight"....

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Thread: Youtube Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holster

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    Can everyone shout ... "Trigger Finger Straight".
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  3. #32
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    Well, I hate to even say that a person that discharges any projectile into their leg is lucky but, this guy was actually pretty doggone lucky.
    If the entry angle had been different AKS More Acute - he would have shattered his entire knee joint into splintery bite size little pieces.

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    "Mistakes happen, and if you practice stuff like this it is bound to happen." <~~~ That is just not a true or reality based statement at all.

    This just did not have to happen though I'm sorry that it did.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    This is the primary reason I like to carry unchambered 90% of the time. I realize there is an added risk in the event of an attack, but I also recognize this type of incident as being equal if not greater risk than the alternative. As I've said before, I do not attempt to advocate others to follow my example. I simply want people to understand the reasons for my person decision. One last thing - please do not turn this into a flame war. And lets all be glad this guy took the time to share his story with us, lets not ridicule him.
    If this is a "personal decision" which you don't advocate others adopting, why keep bringing it up? Honestly, it's like you are trying to start arguments about it.

    As to the incident in the video, I'm curious as to why he would have deactivated the thumb safety that early in the draw stroke. When I carried a 1911, and attended classes carrying one, the thumb safety deactivation came when the gun was indexed at the retention position. That's pretty much how everyone I know who carries one does it / trains it.

    I wonder what the level of training of the guy in the video is. He was fortunate not to sustain more serious injury.

    Matt
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    If this is a "personal decision" which you don't advocate others adopting, why keep bringing it up? Honestly, it's like you are trying to start arguments about it.
    No, not trying to start arguments. I'm sorry if it came off that way. Just that some people seem mystified and baffled by my decision. I hoped that this would be another example to people as to my fear.

    Ironically, I am about to go see Fireworks in another part of town and will be out past midnight. I will be carrying chambered tonight.

  6. #35
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    Matt

    "As to the incident in the video, I'm curious as to why he would have deactivated the thumb safety that early in the draw stroke."

    It seems as though he whoopsed with the "innovative" holster and snicked off the thumb safety in the process of of believing that he was thumb releasing the firearm from the retention holster.

    He just picked himself a losing combination of holster & firearm.

    Really not a super brilliant holster choice for civilian concealed carry in the first place.

    Too bad that he didn't spend a bit of quality time on DC...we all could have talked him into making a different carry holster selection.

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    QK got there 1st......holster is not well designed or being used in a manor it was not designed for
    Last edited by limatunes; July 5th, 2011 at 02:03 AM. Reason: removing Off Topic
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  8. #37
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    Could we kinda keep the conversation directly related to the video and not on adric22

    Just because we spot an occasional open window that does not mean that we always hafta run and stick our heads into it.
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  9. #38
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    This guy is an absolute idiot. I like the part where he says his training kicked in. Some how I don't think this guy has any training beyond watching G.I. Joe cartoons.
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  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    also peculiar is that the 'shot in leg with a glock'-- this was different.
    it happened on the draw. nothing to do with the trigger finger being layed across the trigger guard and getting curled inside the trigger guard by impact on the edge of the holster. and it was not a striker fired, safety less ( external operated activated type) rather it was a 1911. and the event happened during the draw.

    fault with the operator for having his finger inside the trigger guard before the muzzle was on target.

    more than that is rather a wast of words; there are plenty, but all needs saying has been said
    he admits to fault but than like a politician he tries to rationalize away the event as 'one of those' or it could happen to any one'

    wrong and wrong

    the papers and the news are not filled with these events cause they are rear, uncommon, unusual, and amoungst proficient gun handlers know to be caused by carelessness and stupidity. the holster is of a design perhaps better suited for OC than CC. with out regard, practice before you do a demonstration. guns are special and till you can accept that 'specialty' leave then be. not difficult to learn to use if you are willing to put your ideas away and learn the basics. after the basics are ingrained in you indelibly, than under the tutelage of a pro, go to the next level.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
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  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    I've been discussing this on my local legal concealed-carry Forums, and here's where my thoughts stand, at this moment.

    I think that this ND shows that in many cases, it's the end-result of several careless mistakes that gives rise to the end-effect.

    In the first place, the author of the video readily confessed to his mix-up the two different holsters and the two different guns he had trained with on that very day, in short succession:

    -the Glock in the 5.11 ThumbDrive
    -the 1911 in the SERPA

    The author of the video said that he's not blaming the holsters - he's blaming himself: and that the video is to illustrate one type of mistake that can happen during live-fire training.

    Indeed, I do think that certainly did err, here.

    In this case, giving it the 20/20 retrospective look that it deserves, I think that when the SERPA did not release, instead of trying harder to clear the holster - as he confessed to have done - the shooter should have instead *stopped* his draw stroke, and simply repeated the drill from the zero-count. Certainly, one school of thought is to "play it as it lies" - to execute, resolving the problem and bring the gun on-target...but I think that kind of training requires that the shooter be very highly experienced or to be under the direct supervision of someone who is more experienced, so that halt can be given to the exercise before it goes, as this video shows, *that* wrong.

    Given the author's level of experience, I think that had he not been immediately-previously drilling with the Glock/5.11 ThumbDrive combo, that he'd likely would *not* have tripped the thumb-safety on his 1911 prematurely, at a point in the draw stroke that was most inappropriate. What's more, I also think that had he not been drilling with the other gun/hoslter platform immediately prior to the switch, he also would not have curved his trigger finger during actuation of the SERPA's release. I think that these are the actual double-bogeys in what caused this ND.

    As a beginner, I have been shown the SERPA many times, and it is through such demonstrations and my own experiences that I've formulated my belief in that the SERPA is completely safe, with any type of handgun, if you use the proper draw-stroke in clearing its retention mechanism. But hook that trigger finger while in your attempt to disengage its retention during your draw, and as we have all seen many times in our community, even the most experienced shooters can have serious problems.

    If you look at time-points 0:57 to 0:58 in the video, which is at slow-motion (cranking up the resolution, although I don't believe the original video was actually shot in HD, can also help), you can see that his finger enters the trigger guard while the pistol is still pointed down towards the ground. Whether it was from a lack of trigger finger discipline or an inadvertent insertion following the fight with his SERPA's release, it's clear that's the problem. I therefore think that he also needs to really re-examine his draw-stroke. and doubly so, when using the SERPA.

    I'm a beginner, so I've tried to keep my "manual of arms" both safe for my current level of experience, as well as the same and simple - so that both when I reach for the firearm or holster it in classes/training, I know, instinctively, not only what the steps are...but also what I should do if anything doesn't seem the same or "right."

    I hope to never have to experience a ND - and FWIW, I thank the author of that video for sharing with us his unfortunate experience: and that if it is any consolation, that it does teach me something.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    If you look at time-points 0:57 to 0:58 in the video, which is at slow-motion (cranking up the resolution, although I don't believe the original video was actually shot in HD, can also help), you can see that his finger enters the trigger guard while the pistol is still pointed down towards the ground. Whether it was from a lack of trigger finger discipline or an inadvertent insertion following the fight with his SERPA's release, it's clear that's the problem. I therefore think that he also needs to really re-examine his draw-stroke. and doubly so, when using the SERPA.
    This was a training issue--NOT an equipment issue. TSiWRX hit the nail on the head with this.

    I've done 1000's of draws/reholsters with the SERPA--between training and combat--I've never had a problem with drawing (or the release of the weapon from the holster) or reholstering of my M9 (carried off safe, hammer down)....I've never been "drawn" to putting my finger on the trigger while disengaging the active safety and drawing down on a target.

    This was a training issue--plain and simple.

    If one is prone to putting their finger on the trigger, thus having zero trigger-finger discipline, then no holster is going to make you safer.

    The safety is between your ears.
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  13. #42
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    Serpa - Just say NO!

    However I fully expect the disciples of the cult to cry blasphemy. I would submit that a mechanism which when working properly and as designed yet allows improper operation that results in injury is a poorly designed and flawed mechanism. YMMV, but I allow no Serpa's in my class.
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  14. #43
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    TSIWRX - I am impressed with your evaluation of the video. I agree with your conclusions 100%. Thanks for posting.
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  15. #44
    Ex Member Array G19inLV's Avatar
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    That is why Front Sight does not allow Serpa holsters. These gimmicky retention holsters only make drawing more unsafe. I would suggest that if you wear a Serpa, to stop using it. This has happened more than once. Just get a regular holster with adjustable retention that doesn't allow for tricks in order to remove your firearm.

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    TSi....for a professed beginner, you are a right thinker. these skills should serve you well as you and guns go through life.

    that a gun firing when the operator did not intend it to do so is a result of many things---big and small; all working from different directions, driven by different events that happened like they may never again. results vary greatly--from nothing but "OMG how it could have been so bad" to "OMG, that is as bad as it can get" and St. Peter is the only one listening to you now.

    i take from him---never move faster than you can stop.

    its an old lesson, bears repeating though.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

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