July 5th, 2011 08:19 AM
My brand new S&W 1911TA and what I found inside it...UPDATE #20-Grrrr!
I almost didn't post this, but I think it's fair and reasonable to address QC issues in guns and by manufacturers that potential people may be considering - people like, well, myself.
So, I recently traded two guns (and then some) for a S&W 1911TA. Very nice looking gun. And I should add, I hope this isn't typical of S&W - this is an E series and hence supposed to be 'enhanced'.
right side by ron.0000, on Flickr
I get it home and start the ritual - evaluating the trigger. It's got some subtle glitches - hmmm, I think. So I measure the pull weight at 5.25 lbs and re-think - hmmm, and take off to shoot it.
Two hundred rounds later, I play with the trigger pull some more and notice it's got a slight, rough, drag before the break . I measure the trigger pull and it's now just a touch over 6 lbs! So again, I think, hmmm.
So I finally get the right side safety off and start disassembling the frame. Here's the first thing I see, and let me say, the pic doesn't do it justice. You can see the gouge, although not fully, but the score marks aren't so obvious in the pic. I've never seen a trigger bow in this shape before:
Trigger bow rear close-up by ron.0000, on Flickr
Well, that's almost got to be burrs on the disconnector - sure enough, you can feel the sharp edges, and actually see a dimple in the middle of the flat part that contacts the trigger bow, and it looks like the 'polishing' was done with a sand blaster :
disconnector-bow side-better by ron.0000, on Flickr
Well, now when I 'think', it's not hmmm anymore, it's more like HTH! Remember, this is a brand new S&W!
So I cleanup and polish the scored face of the trigger bow and polish the face of the disconnector and break all the edges slightly. I didn't completely get the dimple out, but it won't affect anything.
So I flip the disconnector over and start polishing the face that's in contact with the spring and see this:
disconnector-spring side by ron.0000, on Flickr
It's not really curved on the edge like it appears to in the pic, but the 'wing' on the left side, well - not good . So I staighten that out.
Then the tip of the disconnector feels like going over a speed bump in the road too fast when the slide passes over it! So I polish that face and the rounded surface in the slide that contacts it. Now it just feels like a bump. I don't remember feeling that in a 1911???
I intended to polish the hammer face and rounded edge on the FP plate, but figured I'd put a few more rounds through it first.
Oh, and that new 'patented' trigger S&W came up with for the E series? It's just some high bumps on the top and bottom of the trigger for fitting. Talk about something that does nothing! The humps had been completely ground off and tool marks left to indicate where the grinding was done. There was no trace left of adjustment bumps - what a sales gimmick! So I polish the top and bottom surfaces of the trigger, and break and polish all the outside edges of the trigger bow.
Man! I didn't know this was gonna be a 'kit' gun.
Anyway, I get it all back together and the trigger measures just a touch under 5 lbs. And boy, is it clean. There is no perceivable motion - just a clean, surprise break, very nice. I'm a bit fanatic on 1911 triggers - I can go with a clean 3.5 lb trigger without hesitation. But this one, even at 5 lbs is so clean, I'm not sure I want to change it. Hmmm, though, I almost have to in order to relieve some of the upward force on the disconnector.
So with just polishing, no spring adjustment, ahhh, well I did break and polish the edges of the flat spring at the contact points, I lost a bit over a pound in pull weight. I think the disconnector spring leaf is a bit too strong, the disconnector is forced upward pretty heavily.
I just checked one of my Kimbers and it's slide and disconnector is nothing like that. And if that's not enough, my SureFire X200 weapon mounted light won't even start to fit the rails.
I did adjust the trigger/disconnector spring a bit and it helped the slide-disconnector 'bump' problem. The trigger weight dropped to 4.5 lbs and it's one of the best triggers I've ever pulled. I guess S&W and me do good work .
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
July 5th, 2011 08:25 AM
I could not bring myself to not absoulutely raise a fit with S&W over this especially with what I assume you paid for the gun. Absoulte nonsense that left the factory like that. I have been researching the 1911, and S&W was on the list...not any more.
Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.
I am just as nice as anyone lets me be and can be just as mean as anyone makes me. - Quoted from Terryger, New member to our forum.
July 5th, 2011 08:34 AM
Somebody didn't get their annual raise dey was expecting,or it was a rough weekend
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
July 5th, 2011 09:25 AM
Are you going to send S&W a bill for your gunsmithing services?
I sure hope you didn't trade any of your Glocks for that...
The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
July 5th, 2011 09:37 AM
Thank you for the bench report. I am sad to see S&W screwed up so much on that one. I would have sent it right back to them to fix with a list of all the issues you found.
That is not right at all.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
- Roy Batty
July 5th, 2011 12:10 PM
Jaw dropping. I was hoping to buy one of these models. Unfortunately I would have to pay someone $150 to do what you did.
I guess I will wait for a cast off from a frustrated buyer without your knowledge, and then get the used piece to a gunsmith.
Go Glock - until you can afford H&K
July 5th, 2011 02:27 PM
Sorry for your problems but I must complement you on the photos. Good work..
Indusrtrial Machine Tool Technician - Certified Refrigeration Technician - CET
NRA Life Member
July 5th, 2011 02:33 PM
Wow, unacceptable. I would be very interested in updates on how S&W handles this.
July 5th, 2011 03:47 PM
It has already been handled by the OP :)
Originally Posted by azchevy
I would have sent it back if it was sold as a new gun. If it was an as is then you did fine work.
July 5th, 2011 03:50 PM
And that is one of the reasons I think S&W should have never ventured into the auto pistol market. They should stay with what they have built a reputation on- revolvers. When companies are only concerned with expanding and making money, quality goes down.
COLT=1911. S&W = revolver. IMO period.
Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.
July 5th, 2011 04:06 PM
Nice work Tangle! On a 1911, the trigger is king. I doubt that sending it back to the S&W apprentices would have given you much satisfaction. I hope the rest of the gun works as well as your bang switch now. What are you going to do with the rails?
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
July 5th, 2011 04:19 PM
Thanks! Well, the rails are the big question. I haven't contacted S&W yet, but probably will tomorrow. I don't know that there's much they can do but replace the frame. And, I'm not so sure that will fix the problem if it's a manufacturing spec issue.
Originally Posted by gunthorp
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
July 5th, 2011 05:15 PM
I had been considering a S&W 1911PD. However, based on your review I think I'll wait. Hope you give the CS folks a call and let them know how frustrating this is for you. Let us know what they say.
Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
Ruger owners check our sister forum http://rugerpistolforums.com a great site to share and learn about your Ruger pistols.
July 5th, 2011 07:48 PM
Wow, that's like buying a brand-new car, and then have to give it a tune up
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
July 5th, 2011 08:37 PM
It's just hard to get good help these days...and it aint just as Smith and Wesson.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
Search tags for this page
s&w 1911 e series review
s&w 1911 ta
s&w 1911ta for sale
smith and wesson 1911 e series review
smith and wesson 1911 ta
smith and wesson 1911 ta review
smith and wesson 1911ta
smith and wesson 1911ta e series
smith and wesson e series 1911 review
smith and wesson e series for sale
smith and wesson e series review
Click on a term to search for related topics.
» DefensiveCarry Sponsors