Advice on three .40 S&W options. - Page 6

Advice on three .40 S&W options.

This is a discussion on Advice on three .40 S&W options. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While everyone is talking about Glock, SIG, and others brands, I'll throw H & K in the mix! Either the P2000, P2000 SK, or P30. ...

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Thread: Advice on three .40 S&W options.

  1. #76
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    While everyone is talking about Glock, SIG, and others brands, I'll throw H & K in the mix! Either the P2000, P2000 SK, or P30. The P2000s comes in with 9mm, 40 SW, and 357 sig. The P30 either 9mm or 40SW.


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  2. #77
    Member Array brad813's Avatar
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    The 5 second thing was how long it takes me to, but I know that will improve over time. I do know the law, and I know it says nothing about double tap. Common sense however says that that should be the maximum force need on an average assailant. More or less obviously depending on who is attacking you. I have already mentioned that if people would learn to read the entire thread before posting replies. I am well aware of the change of sighting that would be required. I am no fool, though apparently there are a few here that are foolish enough to treat me as one. I am simplifying things with the information that was needed. Btw, for those of you who think 9mm ammo is significantly cheaper than .40 S&W, show around and you will find otherwise. Unless you have an FFL and can buy at wholesale prices or are buying that cheap, good for nothing, ammo(especially in bulk) the price averages about $22-$25 a box. Chances are once I buy my firearm, I will buy ammo at Cabela's to get the reward points to help save money. I am not demeaning anyone's experience or opinions, though I do believe my intent was misunderstood with some of my posts. The .40 S&W does seem to edge out the 9mm as a defense round and there is little sacrifice in capacity. I do assume that both are good choices given that the primary choices of law enforcement for duty weapons are 9mm Parabellum, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. I personally wanted something with power similar to a .45 but with a capacity close to a 9mm, so the .40 is a good choice, and choosing the right ammo will help with recoil as well. I have my reasons for choosing the caliber I have. I doubt there are many here who have been in situations where using a gun for defense would have been necessary, and if you have not then I hope you never have to. There have been a couple occasions in my life where having a carry weapon would have been helpful, and I would not wish anyone to have to decide to use their firearm to defend themselves. I do feel it is better to have one and not need it than to not have one and need it. I can tell you for a fact the latter is a scary place to be, and I do not scare easily.

  3. #78
    Member Array BigRay's Avatar
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    +1 on the Glock finger grooves. They don't fit me on the G23, either. My house gun is a Glock 21 (with the finger grooves removed), my "truck gun" is a S&W MP.40 full-size, and my daily carry gun is a Sig P220 Carry SAO. My son has a Sig P250 compact in 9mm, and we both absolutely love that gun. But then, it has the Dual Action Kellermann trigger (DAK) and breaks around 5.5 pounds. Yes, they are a bit chunky, but no more so than the G23, and the grip is certainly more ergonomic than the Glock.
    In the end, it comes down to which fits your hand better (if you have to shift the gun around in your hand to get a good trigger finger placement or to operate controls like mag and slide stop releases, that's not good). An old-timer once told me to set the handgun on a table, close your eyes, then pick it up and point it in a safe direction. If your sights are pretty close to aligned, the gun fits.
    Good luck in your decision!
    BigRay

    Springfield TRP Armory Kote, Springfield Trophy Match, Sig Sauer P220R SAO, Glock 35 with Heinie Slant Pro sights, Springfield Armory XDs 45, S&W Model 29 Mountain Gun, PTR-91F in 7.62mm NATO, Springfield M1A1, Sig 556 Patrol Rifle and Benelli M2 with 10-round magazine

  4. #79
    Member Array brad813's Avatar
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    Another concern, though purely a preference, is ambidexterity. I happen to be one of those rare ambidextrous individuals, so it would be a nice bonus to have, though not necessary.

  5. #80
    Member Array brad813's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRay View Post
    +1 on the Glock finger grooves. They don't fit me on the G23, either. My house gun is a Glock 21 (with the finger grooves removed), my "truck gun" is a S&W MP.40 full-size, and my daily carry gun is a Sig P220 Carry SAO. My son has a Sig P250 compact in 9mm, and we both absolutely love that gun. But then, it has the Dual Action Kellermann trigger (DAK) and breaks around 5.5 pounds. Yes, they are a bit chunky, but no more so than the G23, and the grip is certainly more ergonomic than the Glock.
    In the end, it comes down to which fits your hand better (if you have to shift the gun around in your hand to get a good trigger finger placement or to operate controls like mag and slide stop releases, that's not good). An old-timer once told me to set the handgun on a table, close your eyes, then pick it up and point it in a safe direction. If your sights are pretty close to aligned, the gun fits.
    Good luck in your decision!
    The finger grooves are ok for me, but may be what makes the Glock feel a bit odd to me, though I am getting used to it. The grips on Smith and Wessons are just strange to me.....makes it feel overly rubberized to me......same with the polymer Walthers.

  6. #81
    Member Array brad813's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    While everyone is talking about Glock, SIG, and others brands, I'll throw H & K in the mix! Either the P2000, P2000 SK, or P30. The P2000s comes in with 9mm, 40 SW, and 357 sig. The P30 either 9mm or 40SW.
    Oddly enough, H&K handguns are hard to find where I live, but I can easily get the civilian version of their MP-5 Submachine Gun.

  7. #82
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad813 View Post
    The 5 second thing was how long it takes me to, but I know that will improve over time. I do know the law, and I know it says nothing about double tap. Common sense however says that that should be the maximum force need on an average assailant. More or less obviously depending on who is attacking you. I have already mentioned that if people would learn to read the entire thread before posting replies. I am well aware of the change of sighting that would be required. I am no fool, though apparently there are a few here that are foolish enough to treat me as one. I am simplifying things with the information that was needed. Btw, for those of you who think 9mm ammo is significantly cheaper than .40 S&W, show around and you will find otherwise. Unless you have an FFL and can buy at wholesale prices or are buying that cheap, good for nothing, ammo(especially in bulk) the price averages about $22-$25 a box. Chances are once I buy my firearm, I will buy ammo at Cabala's to get the reward points to help save money. I am not demeaning anyone's experience or opinions, though I do believe my intent was misunderstood with some of my posts. The .40 S&W does seem to edge out the 9mm as a defense round and there is little sacrifice in capacity. I do assume that both are good choices given that the primary choices of law enforcement for duty weapons are 9mm Parabellum, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. I personally wanted something with power similar to a .45 but with a capacity close to a 9mm, so the .40 is a good choice, and choosing the right ammo will help with recoil as well. I have my reasons for choosing the caliber I have. I doubt there are many here who have been in situations where using a gun for defense would have been necessary, and if you have not then I hope you never have to. There have been a couple occasions in my life where having a carry weapon would have been helpful, and I would not wish anyone to have to decide to use their firearm to defend themselves. I do feel it is better to have one and not need it than to not have one and need it. I can tell you for a fact the latter is a scary place to be, and I do not scare easily.
    truly have no other direction to go....but you have to actually do it to discover how close your research relates to reality.

    and i have never met anyone who had so many opinions---wrongly stated and justified only in your mind. i do not notice you having said words to the effect of--"as i noticed in a practice session that".....an event followed by an observation and a conclusion.
    watching the entitlement generation butt heads with reality shall be...entertaining

    Cabalas points (2%) is a good way to accumulate some savings. though at $37/100 plus tax practice ammo on special it adds up (vs. $28/100 9mm).

    please use the phrase "common sense" with a qualifier such as--" in my opinion" cause your sense ain't very much common to the many of us here.
    i am fascinated and typing back to you as i have never met the likes of you before and i am thinking that i may need to get up to speed if you are in any way representative of the up coming generation. actually, there are a couple other here that i am starting to understand ; as their thought processes are ----different than i have been exposed to before. facts are trumped by opinion which is what you say it is. as Spock would say: Fascinating.
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  8. #83
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    The sig and glock were recently tested by the ATF, along with the M&P40. The glock and M&P were approved for purchase, the sig wasn't due to reliability problems. This led sig to contest the outcome, saying reliability shouldn't have been weighted more heavily than other categories. That should tell you all you need to know.

    If that doesn't tell you what you need to know, the Federal Air Marshals recently purchased a large amount of 250s to replace their 229s. They never issued the 250s because they wouldn't run right, and have now ditched them and returned to 229s.

    BTW, you "common sense" stance regarding double taps is wrong and could prove dangerous should you ever need a gun for defense.
    I collect ammo, not guns.

  9. #84
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad813 View Post
    Good, reliable ammo for 9mm and .40 is no more than a couple dollars difference if that. If I ever have to use it to stop someone, the .40 has a better record and more power. I would rather not risk being charged with a felony by using more than the double tap typically allowed by law, unless needed. It is, for me, a balance of needed force and legal(and fiscal) responsibility. The 9mm, while favored by the military(and NYPD), could possibly force you to use a third shot to disable and the more shots you take the more likely you are to run into legal trouble.
    As I said, the ideal first handgun for a person to get is a .22 LR If that is not practical, then the 9mm is next best.

    When buying top quality self-defense ammo, the price difference between the two is indeed often just a couple of dollars. But in comparing FMJ ammo for practice, the difference in price is quite significant. One can find far better buys for 9mm FMJ.



    by using more than the double tap typically allowed by law,

    No such law exists in any state, so you are going by some very seriously bad information.

    .

  10. #85
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad813 View Post
    I do know the law, and I know it says nothing about double tap. Common sense however says that that should be the maximum force need on an average assailant.
    This is not common sense. With a bit of research you'll find many instances, where many well placed rounds failed to incapacitate.

    Handgun rounds are very, very, seriously underpowered self-defense tools. We carry them, because it's just impractical to lug around a 12 gauge, or AR. No bullet will knock a person over, neither will they instantly render the shootee invalid.

    Step 1: insert lead into BG Step 2: don't stop until the threat has ceased

    It doesn't matter what hardware you choose for self defense. What matters is how self defense decisions and tactics are formed, and solved in your mind.

    Have you had any multi-day, professional gun courses?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #86
    Member Array brad813's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    truly have no other direction to go....but you have to actually do it to discover how close your research relates to reality.

    and i have never met anyone who had so many opinions---wrongly stated and justified only in your mind. i do not notice you having said words to the effect of--"as i noticed in a practice session that".....an event followed by an observation and a conclusion.
    watching the entitlement generation butt heads with reality shall be...entertaining

    Cabalas points (2%) is a good way to accumulate some savings. though at $37/100 plus tax practice ammo on special it adds up (vs. $28/100 9mm).

    please use the phrase "common sense" with a qualifier such as--" in my opinion" cause your sense ain't very much common to the many of us here.
    i am fascinated and typing back to you as i have never met the likes of you before and i am thinking that i may need to get up to speed if you are in any way representative of the up coming generation. actually, there are a couple other here that i am starting to understand ; as their thought processes are ----different than i have been exposed to before. facts are trumped by opinion which is what you say it is. as Spock would say: Fascinating.
    Actually the 40 runs about $30 there now, and there is no tax for online orders. Not sure how it is $37. but that may be at your local store. NY and CT always seem to be a bit higher for some reason. In Virginia the average cost of a box of .40 is around $25. I plan to stock up on ammo a bit though. Please do not assume I am foolish just because you are older than I am. I will adapt my opinions as I gain experience but at the same time I need to trust my instincts as well.

  12. #87
    Member Array brad813's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    This is not common sense. With a bit of research you'll find many instances, where many well placed rounds failed to incapacitate.

    Handgun rounds are very, very, seriously underpowered self-defense tools. We carry them, because it's just impractical to lug around a 12 gauge, or AR. No bullet will knock a person over, neither will they instantly render the shootee invalid.

    Step 1: insert lead into BG Step 2: don't stop until the threat has ceased

    It doesn't matter what hardware you choose for self defense. What matters is how self defense decisions and tactics are formed, and solved in your mind.

    Have you had any multi-day, professional gun courses?
    Does a semester long marksmanship course count?

  13. #88
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    It may. Was it specifically about markmanship, or did it have some elements of self defense?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  14. #89
    Senior Member Array TonyDTrigger's Avatar
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    I like Glocks a lot, my carry is a G26. However with the .40 I'll suggest you try the XDsc, or go with a 9mm G26.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad813 View Post
    Does a semester long marksmanship course count?
    No.

    Long marksmanship is good, but it is much different when shooting close-in, under stress. I recommend you seek training in this area of expertise. Look for Mas Ayoob's LFI classes on weapon employment and legal considerations.
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