The precision tool steel 1911 vs plastic and stamped
This is a discussion on The precision tool steel 1911 vs plastic and stamped within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A $3K 1911 is not worth the extra money. A $2k 1911 is worth the extra cash over an entry level 1911. As stated, they ...
July 9th, 2011 05:38 PM
A $3K 1911 is not worth the extra money. A $2k 1911 is worth the extra cash over an entry level 1911. As stated, they will have better quality parts, and the 1911 has quite a few when compared to a Glock. Why risk a MIM part crapping out on you when you don't have to? You get hand fitting and finishing on a $2K gun. It will be more accurate than you. It will require less maintenance than the $500 example. It will be a joy to shoot out of the box and function reliably. Most reliability issues with better 1911s are shooter related. Compared to a Glock, they both have advantages and downsides. Ease of manufacturing and cost go to the design that came along 75yrs later. Molding plastic and stamping metal are alwaysngoing to be cheaper than forging (even casting), and machining parts. Glock is more reliable for a combat environment. But, how many people actually wade thru swamps and deserts? If you are not serving in the military, one design is as reliable as the other for daily carry. As far as rust protection, you can get Ion Bond, Melonite, or whatever you want on your $2k 1911 and it will be just as rust resistant as your Glock. The Glock is never going to be as accurate as a fitted 1911. But, it is more than accurate enough. You are also never going to get the same quality trigger out of a Glock compared to a 1911. As far as ergos go, the 1911 wins out here. Change the grips, grip safety, and MSH and you completely Chang the feel of the gun. To even come close on a Glock requires extensive cutting and reshaping of plastic, (and you never quite get there). Ease of use goes to Glock. It was designed to be idiot proof in an era where fewer and fewer people are really "gun people". As far as the difference between a $2K and a $3K 1911 go? Marketing hype in my opinion. I own $2K all the way up to $4K examples from the same companies. I can tell no difference in in overall practical quality or performance for the double the price tag. Anything below $1k on a 1911 is a base gun to build on. A Glock needs few changes out of the box, (sights are the only real must). But, you had better like the Glock. Because, there isn't much you can do with it. For 99% of all shooters, either a good 1911 or a Glock will work just fine. The 1911 will always cost more. As far as which one you need? I think the sigle biggest question becomes magazine capacity. If you want more bullets, save some money and buy a Glock. Cost and capacity favor it. For some people, those things don't matter.
July 9th, 2011 05:38 PM
July 9th, 2011 06:41 PM
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Dilgentia Vis Celeritas"
July 9th, 2011 07:25 PM
None For Me Thanks.
July 10th, 2011 08:09 AM
I did not mean to imply that the problems are related to MIM, they are not; the Generation 4 problems seem to be related to the new recoil spring setup.
Originally Posted by Tangle
For all I know, my Generation 3 Glocks may or may not have MIM. I do know that I've not seen many, if any, problems with parts breakage and Glock makes a heck of a lot of guns. Actually I did recently see where someone broke a small part (ejector / extractor) after 70,000+ rounds; I am not concerned.
In reality it's not the use of MIM I have a problem with (It's not a purchase disqualification like a IL) I don't like it being used on $1,000 pistols for large pieces like the thumb safety on a 1911. I would rather pay $1,200 instead of $1,000 (That would likely cover the price difference between MIM and steel for the small parts up front) and not settle for "good enough" if it was an option.
For pocket carry, I have a Kel-Tec; doesn't exactly bring visions of quality, but the pistol was under $300. I did not expect the "best" components when I bought it, I simply expected it would shoot reliably when I pull the trigger and it does. If I have a problem it comes with a stated lifetime warranty.
I guess my feeling is that when a pistol cost a $1,000+ it should have quality components and work right out of the box, otherwise I can spend 1/2 that amount for a Glock that will.
^ Well said
Originally Posted by ranburr
No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!
July 10th, 2011 12:44 PM
Back To: The precision tool steel 1911 vs plastic and stamped
I was thinking about this a bit more this morning and was sort of looking at it from a slightly different angle.
Really it's pretty amazing how the whole 1911 "parts thing" has evolved to the degree that it has.
In a way it's an incredible thing.
AKA all of these aftermarket precision parts makers in stiff competition with one another in order to produce the highest quality 1911 parts.
Yes, of course it could get to be quite a pricey endeavor but, it's now possible for a person to educate themselves a bit with a Kuhnhausen book and basically construct an extremely high quality custom firearm with the exact features they want...at home.
A person could start out with a WILSON pre-fit Slide, Frame, & barrel at $859.00 (initially shipped to a FFL dealer...of course)
and then begin the process of choosing the exact features that they desire just like ice cream flavors.
A mainspring housing....I want ...arched, flat, checkered, smooth, Aluminum, Stainless, w/ or without a mag well, lanyard loop, etc.
A trigger...I want... Long, medium, short, flat, Aluminum, Titanium, adjustible, competition,.....etc.
A hammer....too many high quality styles and configurations to even begin listing.
The same with sights.
I could go on but, you get my point & I think that a completed ultra-fine and superior quality handgun could be had for far less than $3 Grand.
As far as readily available ultra-fine, ultimate, pistols & revolvers are concerned...there have been builders building custom handguns for decades.
It's really nothing new.
One set of handguns that I have wanted to at least be able to look at and hold "up close & personal" are the revolvers and semi-automatic completely hand built by KORTH USA.
I'd LOVE to own a KORTHhttp://www.korthusa.com/pistol_en.htm but, I never really had the 6 to 8 Thousand Dollars laying around in order to buy even a no frills basic one.
July 10th, 2011 12:48 PM
For Tangle: My H&K EDC is either a P2000 or P2000sk both in .40. One is DA/SA and the other LEM and I am still undecided which one I like best. On a small aside from all the new 1911s I recently picked up a Clt. 1940 something I think '48. I had it reblued, faux ivory grips, new beavertail, new hammer, and new ejector. This is the most accurate gun I own and has been very reliable. The legend was that it was an original Pachtmeyer tuned 1911.
Reason for the story; another good way to go is buy an inexpensive, not cheap 1911 and have a good smith put what you want into it. I would never fault my Kimber's accuracy but my 3 were pure hell to get to shoot anything other than factory roundnose. A friend who only shoots roundnose in his Kimber has over 25,000 rounds with no issues other than changed springs.
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July 10th, 2011 07:49 PM
Good thread with lots of interesting observations and comments.
Iíve owned both Glocks and 1911s, I still own 1911s and am TEMPORARILY without any Glocks. The reason for that is simple, the slight difference in width is enough when carried IWB for me to select the 1911 over the Glock. Now this is not to say this is true for everyone but for me it was the difference between carrying everyday and leaving the pistol at home.
Additionally, for some reason I shoot the 1911 better than the Glock. I assume thatís mostly because Iíve shot 1911s for a lot longer than Glocks, more practice with that platform would no doubt make a world of difference.
As for reliability, my G19 only choked once during the time I had it, I have no idea what happened but I suspect I limp wristed it. It was a heck of a lot more accurate than I was with it and frankly, I didnít mind the trigger at all, at least it was the same shot to shot, plus I really liked the reset.
My everyday carry Kimber UCII has been reliable. I broke it in according to instructions, shot a lot of ball through it. In the winter it still has ball in it but its sitting here now loaded with JHP which it feeds reliably. I donít use special magazines, or spend hours lubing or maintaining the 1911.
In closing I donít think you have to spend a lot of money to get a reliable 1911 however I do think you have to spend more than the $400 and change that will buy you a Glock. I also think with the 1911 you have to pay more attention to maintenance than you would with a Glock and some of that maintenance will cost money. A case in point would be recoil springs for my UC, not a place to skimp.
I donít own a Glock nowÖ.but rest assured, Iíll own another one, maybe sooner than laterÖ.Iím thinking a G26 this time.
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