Why you should carry one in the chamber!

This is a discussion on Why you should carry one in the chamber! within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; toolset skillset mindset you start by making it harder to get into the toolset than you require of yourself to perform additional skills under stress ...

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Thread: Why you should carry one in the chamber!

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    toolset
    skillset
    mindset

    you start by making it harder to get into the toolset
    than you require of yourself to perform additional skills under stress to make your tool ready
    but you have already made up your mind that the odds of needing it are 0.00001 so why bother at all??
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    The above statement indicates to me, again my opinion, that you lead a rather sheltered lifestyle and other than watching events unfold on the news have never encountered a violent or dedicated person attempting to harm you.
    While I will admit that I do live a sheltered lifestyle, and have not been attacked with lethal force, my reasoning has to do more with reading hundreds of stories of self-defense on the internet. In most cases I have read, no shots are ever fired and simply possessing a weapon will stop the attack. These are the stories you never hear about on the news because people often don't call the police, and even if they did the story isn't interesting enough to put on the evening news unless somebody was shot. I even saw a statistic on it once, but can't find it at the moment. But the number of these types of self-defense situations are much higher than they kind you describe.

    It seems most of the people who really, really advocate the chambered round seem to believe that all self-defense situations will be fast and end with somebody being dead. And while I'll certainly admit that these do happen, I just don't get the impression that it is the norm.

    I've also pointed out in other threads that my first split-second reaction to such an unexpected attack would be to respond with my martial arts training. Even with a gun with a hot round in the chamber is not as fast of a response as my hands. If somebody surprises me with a gun or knife, my gun will be an afterthought. Once I've neutralized the immediate threat, I'll go for my gun. Then there are just some scenarios (like the one in the first video) where you are pretty much screwed and there is just no way to win regardless.

  4. #33
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    While I will admit that I do live a sheltered lifestyle, and have not been attacked with lethal force, my reasoning has to do more with reading hundreds of stories of self-defense on the internet. In most cases I have read, no shots are ever fired and simply possessing a weapon will stop the attack. These are the stories you never hear about on the news because people often don't call the police, and even if they did the story isn't interesting enough to put on the evening news unless somebody was shot. I even saw a statistic on it once, but can't find it at the moment. But the number of these types of self-defense situations are much higher than they kind you describe.

    It seems most of the people who really, really advocate the chambered round seem to believe that all self-defense situations will be fast and end with somebody being dead. And while I'll certainly admit that these do happen, I just don't get the impression that it is the norm.

    I've also pointed out in other threads that my first split-second reaction to such an unexpected attack would be to respond with my martial arts training. Even with a gun with a hot round in the chamber is not as fast of a response as my hands. If somebody surprises me with a gun or knife, my gun will be an afterthought. Once I've neutralized the immediate threat, I'll go for my gun. Then there are just some scenarios (like the one in the first video) where you are pretty much screwed and there is just no way to win regardless.
    So in other words you're preparing for the best case scenario, not the worst.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Anyone have popcorn? I'm gonna sit this one out, but need something to snack on.
    Since you typed this on May 13, 2011: For the chamber empty carry folks, a question...
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    No professional training, just practice, practice, practice. We all play the odds... to me, I bet that carrying daily your chances of an unintentional discharge are more likely than actually needing to defend yourself in a matter of seconds. So I choose to carry unchambered, and live by my choice every day.
    Have you remedied that situation, or do you still persist in the idea that training to use a firearm in self defense based off of the experience of those who have actually had to use a firearm for real - the military and law enforcement - is a bad idea:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    I agree, would be great to get a group of people together to do this kind of training and take it seriously. Unfortunately most any 'official' training is based off of military or police training, not civilian and therefore also based on carrying with one in the chamber.

    I am looking however.
    Like you stated on June 2, 2011 here: Carrying Unchambered - Practices, techniques, tips and tricks.


    Just curious.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I've taken no offense. It is just that whenever this subject comes up and the overwhelming majority leans towards carrying chambered (which is fine with me) I feel that I need to speak up for the minority on this topic and present some of the logic for the other way of thinking.
    Yet you provide no actual data to support your logic.
    TN_Mike and JDE101 like this.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    So in other words you're preparing for the best case scenario, not the worst.
    No...he's preparing for best of worst case scenario: "It may be bad enough that I need a gun, but won't be, you know...THAT bad requiring an immediate response..."
    TN_Mike likes this.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post

    It seems most of the people who really, really advocate the chambered round seem to believe that all self-defense situations will be fast and end with somebody being dead. And while I'll certainly admit that these do happen, I just don't get the impression that it is the norm.

    I've also pointed out in other threads that my first split-second reaction to such an unexpected attack would be to respond with my martial arts training. Even with a gun with a hot round in the chamber is not as fast of a response as my hands. If somebody surprises me with a gun or knife, my gun will be an afterthought. Once I've neutralized the immediate threat, I'll go for my gun. Then there are just some scenarios (like the one in the first video) where you are pretty much screwed and there is just no way to win regardless.
    These two paragraphs reflect a belief commonly shared by those who lack appropriate training and practice and or a lack of comprehension based on a limited knowledge of gunfight dynamics.

    And there's always an excuse for holding such a position. Very narrow minded.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #38
    Member Array 40strapped's Avatar
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    Lol wow lol..... I had no idea lol

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    Well nobody offered popcorn so here goes...

    Two biggest reasons I see:
    1. Greatly reduce the risk of a negligent discharge.
    2. Only you know it's got to be racked before you fire it, if you get jumped and lose your weapon in a fight this could save your life.

    I WAS one of THE biggest un-chambered supporters, even started a site for it... I have since changed MY ways, but still support the right of the individual to make that final call, there are quite valid arguments on both sides - I consider myself one of the lucky ones that doesn't wear the blinders. Argue my points to your hearts content, granted all the e-heroes and egomaniacs will of course never lose a firearm and never be subject to a negligent discharge, only the humans on the site are open to such ridiculous events.

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    he has his 'feelings' based on total strangers making remarks made on the internet to shine a bright light upon themselves.
    others, who have had training and or real life experiences seem not to matter.
    i make reference to zealot.

    i also have not crossed paths with any who feel as he does or have asked to be trained as he does.
    the power of the net, it is my belief, gives his voice and idea an appearance of power far out of
    proportion to his idea has in reality.

    simply put--he stands very alone in a large field.

    ie: you have only ever taken a backseat ride in a glider but you want to fly a jet. you buy it; but cause you do not know how to operate it,
    you want it castrated so it will be safe in your hands, and as you perceive this to be a safer way, others should do like you.

    last time---get lessons and learn to operate the equipment as it was designed and like everyone else does.
    or sell it as too dangerous for you. no shame here--a mans got to know his limitations.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    It seems most of the people who really, really advocate the chambered round seem to believe that all self-defense situations will be fast and end with somebody being dead. And while I'll certainly admit that these do happen, I just don't get the impression that it is the norm.
    I don't believe it's that we believe all self-defense situations are like that. It's that we know that all self-defense situations have THE POTENTIAL to be like that.

    You don't have to be in a violent attack to appreciate the potential for a quick, violent and deadly attack. Some of us have survived violent attacks perhaps before we started to carry or after (some of us with scars) and don't even want to think about going through that again.. because this time we might NOT survive. Even if the likelihood is slim it's still a possibility and a devastating one at that.

    When I see people comforting themselves with statistics (It's less than 1% of a chance that I will get into a violent encounter (and yeah, I just threw a number out there)) I have to cringe and kind of feel like God's punching bag wondering how I got so lucky to fall into that 1%. Of course, I survived and many others do as well but when you look at the years it sometimes takes to heal physically, emotionally, mentally, I stand as a testament that being in that 1% SUCKS and it will change you in a way that you could never imagine... more than likely for the rest of your life.

    Writing it off as "unlikely" will not save you if/when it does come and when it does you WILL be second guessing yourself.

    I was only seventeen when I was attacked. I was not armed. I could not be armed even if I'd wanted to be and I was completely at the mercy of the man who attacked me who MIRACULOUSLY did not kill me though he spent hours promising me he would.

    Unless you have been there you will never know the helplessness of that and I PRAY that no one else has to know it.

    That man promised to find me one day. His goal, I know, was to have a roll of terror in my life for the rest of my life. For years it worked. I gave up years looking over my shoulder for him but I came to the point where I was done letting him be more than a speed bump on the road of my life.

    I don't fear he'll come after me again, but if he does I'm ready for him. He would not find the same, scared little girl he preyed upon all those years ago. I don't think he'd recognize the fight in me.

    That attack was FAST! It was violent and it was very public. He didn't care. He was big. He was strong. And he was far more trained and able to handle me than I was. But I doubt he would have been so trained as to laugh off a full magazine being emptied into him.

    I won't go through that again. And I will not comfort myself with statistics that already have proved to me that all the comfort in the world you wrapped yourself in before the incident doesn't matter at all when you believe you're about to die.

    When I was seventeen I had all sorts of comforting statistics and beliefs that I wrapped myself in. I was taught I'd be safe in public. I was taught other people who help me if something happened. I was taught that good girls don't fight. I believed those things and it nearly got me killed.

    Watching other people wrap themselves in similar false security blankets makes me cringe and just hope and pray they don't have to find their security blankets are the same kind of illusions mine were made out of.

    It's their free will to do as they please and take those chances, as always, but I won't rely on those chances... not ever again.

  13. #42
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    I am glad that you have confidence in your abilities to be able to neutralize a threat, after being surprised, from a gun or a knife before it can be used against you.

    Formal martial arts training can be of great benefit in a self defense encounter with a 16 year old crackhead armed with a box cutter at three feet. You do state that many encounters are solved without a shot being fired just the mere presence of firearm and yes you may be right, but what happens when you confront that one guy who does not care about your martial arts training and is simply determined to cut your head off or put two rounds in your gut just to watch you in pain. You will not have time to say "Oh wait, you are not supposed to do that".

    JD hit the nail on the head So in other words you're preparing for the best case scenario, not the worst. You must always be prepared for the absolute worst case scenario. A very wise general once said " The best battle plan in the world goes to heck as soon as the first round is fired".

    I applaud you in the fact that you feel you have the confidence and training to handle any given situation. So there is no misunderstanding I mean this sincerely not making light of you but I am asking you, from a person who has been in some rather lousy circumstances, to please rethink your mental game in regards to these and other potential situations. If it comes down to it there will be little resemblance to a TV shootout when you are on the receiving end of incoming rounds fired by someone who is determined to take your life or what you have and really doesn't care which one it is.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #43
    Member Array Snider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    It seems most of the people who really, really advocate the chambered round seem to believe that all self-defense situations will be fast and end with somebody being dead. And while I'll certainly admit that these do happen, I just don't get the impression that it is the norm.

    I've also pointed out in other threads that my first split-second reaction to such an unexpected attack would be to respond with my martial arts training. Even with a gun with a hot round in the chamber is not as fast of a response as my hands. If somebody surprises me with a gun or knife, my gun will be an afterthought. Once I've neutralized the immediate threat, I'll go for my gun. Then there are just some scenarios (like the one in the first video) where you are pretty much screwed and there is just no way to win regardless.
    Your logic is fundamentally flawed, and critically so. In a way that will absolutely result in your death in the moment of your greatest need, and tragically effecting anyone you are attempting to save as well. You do not comprehend the mindset that I believe a majority of other forum members adhere to; that our gun is the worst case tool, the absolute last option we want to exercise. I and many others here will engage with physical force, with other tools, with our motor vehicle, and those of us in states requiring by law the effort to disengage and flee, list that as a higher priority than drawing our gun.

    I challenge you to find a single person here that "believe that all self-defense situations will be fast and end with somebody being dead." That statement is so far off the mark as to be offensive to me. Do you really have such a low opinion of the members of this forum as to assume that we anticipate all self-defense situations will result in us drawing and killing someone? As if.

    By not carrying a gun with a chambered round, you are failing in a final step pf preparation due to an irrational fear of your toolset, and by admitting that repeatedly on this forum you draw the ire of rational, sane adults who have applied decades of actual experience toward answering the question you pose. I grit my teeth and avoid threads that you get into the mix on the subject, but this post was too much to pass up.
    Bark'n, JD, MotorCityGun and 6 others like this.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Anyone have popcorn? I'm gonna sit this one out, but need something to snack on.


    Here's a drink

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    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  16. #45
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    Here is a recent event (Last month!) ,WITH VIDEO, where a person having a round chambered saved his life. Great 36 page thread on an Ohio CC website. Very popular topic around the country. Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums &bull; View topic - had to shoot someone on friday.

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