Why you should carry one in the chamber! - Page 4

Why you should carry one in the chamber!

This is a discussion on Why you should carry one in the chamber! within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by adric22 I've also pointed out in other threads that my first split-second reaction to such an unexpected attack would be to respond ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array Snider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I've also pointed out in other threads that my first split-second reaction to such an unexpected attack would be to respond with my martial arts training. Even with a gun with a hot round in the chamber is not as fast of a response as my hands. If somebody surprises me with a gun or knife, my gun will be an afterthought. Once I've neutralized the immediate threat, I'll go for my gun. Then there are just some scenarios (like the one in the first video) where you are pretty much screwed and there is just no way to win regardless.
    I felt this part of your post merited an additional reply, so as not to convolute my first reply.

    I've been cornered by multiple assailants and had to fight my way out unarmed. I've been attacked from behind completely unexpectedly, and managed to come out on top. I was lucky, and was the one who walked away from both encounters that I didn't deserve to. I had a will to live and a very strong head of rage. I also didn't face any weapons in the hands of my assailants. And all that being said, I wouldn't have drawn in either scenario. But I would have been a fool to carry unchambered in either scenario, as I would have ultimately died trying to draw and rack a round instead of responding with my fists. If in either scenario, my enemy had a weapon, I would have likely died if I carried unchambered, even potentially died by my own gun in the first scenario.

    Answer me this; do you just wake up every day, strap on your gun, and hope that bad things won't happen to you? Because I assure you, as so many others have already, that if bad things do happen, a gun without a round chambered is an extremely limited resource, and you are likely better off with a can of mace that you can rapidly deploy. Or a taser. Or a brick.

    Take it from those who have had to fight. Or take it from those on this forum who have actually had to fire in self defense (not me). Your hubris is spectacular if you think your personal wisdom is sufficient in this regard.

    I carry assuming the worst case scenario may some day find me.
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  2. #47
    Member Array CountShotula's Avatar
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    I carry one in the chamber.
    A treat my firearms as weapons when I carry them.
    You shouldn't be afraid of the weapon you carry, you should feel safe.

  3. #48
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    Thunder just want to address your comments. Not disagreeing just addressing

    1. Greatly reduce the risk of a negligent discharge.
    2. Only you know it's got to be racked before you fire it, if you get jumped and lose your weapon in a fight this could save your life.


    A self defense weapon is made to be loaded, holstered and left alone until you need it. I spend a lot of time teaching US military personel about the AK-47 and other non US weapons systems. The main thing that I stress is the US and its allies are the only ones who advocate and teach the concept of green, amber, red arming status. Which all that means is green, no mag, chamber empty, amber mag in, chamber empty and red mag in chamber loaded.
    Soviet doctrine is simple insert the mag, load the chamber. If you are going to shoot at someone or something right then do not engage the safety but keep your finger off the trigger. If you are not going to engage someone or something engage the safety. Guess which method had more ND's? The more you mess with something the more likely it is to break, malfunction or with the finger on the trigger function as intended.

    Another example of the ND scenario. One of the most, for the hazardous/potential of an ND, is the carrying of a Glock or other type striker fired weapons without a manual safety in the AIWB Appendix inside the waistband position. I have been carrying a gun for a long time but when I carry in this position I still insert the mag, chamber a round, insert the weapon in the holster and insert everything as a unit into position. After that is stays there until I need it. Now I know how to draw and reholster from this position but it can and still does make me take pause when I put the weapon back in the holster. When I carry my Para carry 9 or any other weapon with a manual safety I have no issues I simply engage the safety and place my thumb over the flush mounted hammer and would know at once if the trigger was snagged or there was another issue that could cause the weapon to go off.

    The statement about only you know that a round has to be chambered in order for the weapon to be fired reminds me of advertising years ago for weapons with magazine disconnect safeties. If you were involved in a struggle simply press the mag release and if the mag even disengaged a little bit the weapon would not fire. I think that this actually occured on a couple of occasions and it did allow the officer to draw a locked loaded ready to bark BUG and end the conflict.
    If I have been disarmed yes it may take a moment for the BG to realize he has to work the slide but why go that far in the first place. He grabs the gun simply pull the trigger if possible he will not hold on for long, but you can only do this if there is a round in the chamber ready to fire. The last thing you want is to base you life on the firearms knowledge that a BG has about your weapon.

    I am not saying you are wrong or misguided in you statements as they both contain the absolute element of truth but think of it this way.

    If a car has no gas and cant start then there is less of a risk of it being involved in an accident than a moving vehicle. If that same car requires that you use a pin code to open the door or start the engine it will be much more difficult for the car thief to figure out than simply having to have a key.
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    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    While I will admit that I do live a sheltered lifestyle, and have not been attacked with lethal force, my reasoning has to do more with reading hundreds of stories of self-defense on the internet.
    This is why you have been coached/encouraged here to get away from the computer, stop reading, seek additional training....and then train. Life doesn't happen behind a computer...that there are people out there who would no sooner stick a knife in you than look at you if they thought they could get away with it...and maybe your wallet (or food, water, or vehicle).
    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    In most cases I have read, no shots are ever fired and simply possessing a weapon will stop the attack. These are the stories you never hear about on the news because people often don't call the police, and even if they did the story isn't interesting enough to put on the evening news unless somebody was shot.
    Then be sure to request a polite criminal during your next encounter.
    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I even saw a statistic on it once, but can't find it at the moment. But the number of these types of self-defense situations are much higher than they kind you describe.
    Please find that source.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    It seems most of the people who really, really advocate the chambered round seem to believe that all self-defense situations will be fast and end with somebody being dead. And while I'll certainly admit that these do happen, I just don't get the impression that it is the norm.
    That's because we have sought out the training and quite a few of the members here have been there, done that. Remember, criminals set the time and place...we have to react to the criminal's actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I've also pointed out in other threads that my first split-second reaction to such an unexpected attack would be to respond with my martial arts training. Even with a gun with a hot round in the chamber is not as fast of a response as my hands. If somebody surprises me with a gun or knife, my gun will be an afterthought. Once I've neutralized the immediate threat, I'll go for my gun. Then there are just some scenarios (like the one in the first video) where you are pretty much screwed and there is just no way to win regardless.
    I think I've seen that in the movies...but hey, it's your life at stake. I just don't want someone cruising the forum to think that is a viable solution for everyone. Now, I will say, have more defensive tools in the proverbial tool box is a good idea, but remember that the criminal picks the time and place...and his first move could take away your mobility.
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  5. #50
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    JD hit the nail on the head So in other words you're preparing for the best case scenario, not the worst. You must always be prepared for the absolute worst case scenario. A very wise general once said " The best battle plan in the world goes to heck as soon as the first round is fired".
    So, I assume you are prepared for the absolute worst case? That being the case, I assume you also walk around all day wearing body armor? Do you also keep a gas mask around on you at all times in case of a terrorist attack? I think all of us draw a line at how well we want to defend ourselves and decide how much risk and discomfort we want to take.

    Anyone who wants to discount the martial arts as a better tool against a close-range attack, go down to your local self defense school (hopefully one based on Aikido or some mixed martial arts) and see if the instructor or one of the long-time students will allow you to attempt to attack them with an airsoft gun or dummy knife. See who prevails.

    With Lima's story, I have to wonder how her scenario would have been different at 17 years old if she had been taking self-defense classes for years before? I don't know the details of her struggle so she'd have to make the call on that. In my opinion the self-defense classes are MORE important than a gun. The way I see it, most either don't believe the self-defense tactics are reliable (probably because they've never had them demonstrated in person) or they are too lazy to invest years of their life and the gun is an easier way to protect themselves. Or, in some cases a person just may not be physically able to defend themselves such as elderly or disabled people.

    I like what Lima said about the bad guy wouldn't even recognize the fight in her. Most of these guys don't expect a fight, and in many cases wouldn't know what to do if their victim fought back. They expect little girls to be paralyzed with fear. They actually thrive on it. A little self defense training goes a long way. You know how to get yourself out of nearly any time of man handling. So if a person tries to grab your arm, neck, head, leg, waist, etc. You have an immediate and unexpected response. If somebody points a weapon at you, you have an immediate and unexpected response. The other thing self-defense classes do, or at least did for me, was remove some of the fear of an encounter. My worst fear for most of my life was pain. But I experience pain on a regular basis in class. It actually gets you accustomed to it so when you are no longer frightened of it.

    The way I see it, between self-defense classes, pepper spray (which I now carry in the palm of my hand when walking/jogging), and my concealed weapon, I am 99% better able to defend myself than the average sheep out there. So I've said it before and I'll say it again.. Those who criticize me on grounds of "lack of training." I see it the opposite. I'm comfortable in my training to the point that I see no need for the additional risk of carrying chambered.

    I think I've seen that in the movies...but hey, it's your life at stake. I just don't want someone cruising the forum to think that is a viable solution for everyone.
    I would tend to agree that unless somebody has trained and practiced the scenario hundreds of times, this is probably not something most people want to count on.

    I also want to thank everyone for keeping this thread more civil than past debates on the topic.

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    I've said it in a thread like this before and I'll say it again; you carry with one in the chamber per the tula drill - an average man can cover 21 feet (7yds) in 1.5 seconds. If said man has a knife in his hand, he will cut/stab you before you can draw and rack your semi-auto. Not having to rack your weapon saves you precious time in a moment when fractions of a second count.

    If you handle your weapon in an appropriate manner and carry with an appropriate holster, there is no reason to fear one in the chamber.

    If you're carrying a revolver and do not carry one in the chamber then you have unnecessarily reduced your round capacity by one given that modern day revolvers have safety mechanisms in place that prevent accidental discharge. If your revolver doesn't have this, then get one.
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  7. #52
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    I just have one question for adric22.

    After viewing the video of the shootout in the original post, what makes you believe that when you do go to the gun, your attempt to chamber a round won't result in the same thing as the guy in the video?

    It appears to me, it took 2, maybe 3 attempts to get the gun into battery, if it went into battery at all.

    I don't know how many times he ended up being shot, but excluding the first shot he took before he even drew his weapon, it looks like he got shot at least 2 or 3 more times while he as attempting to put a round in the chamber.

    Why do you assume, you won't perform just as poorly if it ever happens to you?

    I can say that if you don't plan for Mr. Murphy to unexpectedly interfere in your best laid plans and muck things up in the heat of the moment, then I would have to say that is an extremely foolish position to take.

    By having a round already chambered in my gun, I know (with relative certainty) I have at least one shot which will go bang. Everything else is a crap shoot.

    Carrying a gun with an empty chamber, you have no idea whether or not you will even get one round off.

    Okay, that was two questions.
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  8. #53
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I just have one question for adric22.

    After viewing the video of the shootout in the original post, what makes you believe that when you do go to the gun, your attempt to chamber a round won't result in the same thing as the guy in the video?
    Oh.. I see your mis-understanding now. You seem to think that I am professing that somehow I would do better, when I am not. I would probably suffer the same fate as him. Although it does appear there is something wrong with this guy's gun (the slide was stuck open) I do not believe I would do any better than this guy. He was shot from a distance without any warning. I would have been shot too. He was unable to get his gun to function. I may or may not fair better than him getting a round chambered. At least I'm well practiced in getting one chambered even with one hand. I also know my gun and know that it will always chamber correctly and not malfunction as his appears to do. So I may have a better chance of returning fire. I have timed my attempts to draw, aim, and fire with and without chambering a round. Chambering a round typically adds an additional 0.5 seconds to my draw.

    I'm not claiming to be as well prepared as the rest of you in regards to my practice. I never have. I just take my position based on my perception of two threats. One threat is the type shown in the video, and the other threat is that of an ND. Personally, I feel I'm safer doing things the way I do.

    I will say this.. after recently running through a variety of scenarios, I determined I need to either start carrying my little gun chambered due to my inability to chamber a round with sweaty hands. Or stop carrying that gun. So I've done a little of both. I've decided only to carry the little gun when I absolutely have to, and I will keep a round chambered in that one. My daily carry weapon, on the other hand, I have not yet been able to produce a scenario that would keep me from chambering a round. So a round is only chambered when I'm in a riskier part of town.

    On that note... I think I'm going to bow out of this thread. Not because I feel I'm proven wrong. But the truth is, I have nothing to prove to anyone else, and I have no desire or intention of changing anyone's mind on their carry habbits. And since there are only 2 of us here that admit to carrying unchambered, there is little point in arguing about it. If anyone wants any advice or to talk about carrying unchambered, feel free to PM me.

  9. #54
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snider View Post
    Your logic is fundamentally flawed, and critically so. In a way that will absolutely result in your death in the moment of your greatest need, and tragically effecting anyone you are attempting to save as well. You do not comprehend the mindset that I believe a majority of other forum members adhere to; that our gun is the worst case tool, the absolute last option we want to exercise. I and many others here will engage with physical force, with other tools, with our motor vehicle, and those of us in states requiring by law the effort to disengage and flee, list that as a higher priority than drawing our gun.

    I challenge you to find a single person here that "believe that all self-defense situations will be fast and end with somebody being dead." That statement is so far off the mark as to be offensive to me. Do you really have such a low opinion of the members of this forum as to assume that we anticipate all self-defense situations will result in us drawing and killing someone? As if.

    By not carrying a gun with a chambered round, you are failing in a final step pf preparation due to an irrational fear of your toolset, and by admitting that repeatedly on this forum you draw the ire of rational, sane adults who have applied decades of actual experience toward answering the question you pose. I grit my teeth and avoid threads that you get into the mix on the subject, but this post was too much to pass up.
    just adding my 'like' to it is not enough.

    read the entire thing again.....and again
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  10. #55
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    I don't have the luxury of owing a Crystal Ball.

    Carrying my pistol with one in the Chamber allows me to skip a step that can potentially be a life changing or life ending event.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  11. #56
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    OK, I guess it's my turn to add my 2 yen to this, already lengthy and somewhat, redundant thread. Like adric22, I too, consider myself to be well-versed and trained in the "martial arts"...30+ years, in fact, and still actively training/working out. Therefore, am I able to "handle" myself physically, shall we say, better than the average guy my age?...ubetcha'. But am I so naive, or even delusional enough to believe that I could get out of every physical or life threatening encounter towards me or my family using situational awareness, hand-to-hand fighting techniques, eloquent reasoning, street psychology, etc.?; my realistic and humble answer, of course, is "H-E-Double Hockey Sticks, NO".

    With all due modesty and self-actualized and proven capabilities, I'm still able to outrun my 12 yr old (hockey playing) grand nephew, I'm still able to spar/fight (without helmuts or pads) against studs in their 20's and 30's, I can still deliver hand or foot blows that will knock most men unconscience or render them incapacitated, blah, blah, blah. But this takes place in a "controlled" environment within strict guidelines and rules. And as others have previously and so eloquently noted, the BG(s) could care less about whether I hold 1 or 10 black belts in 10 different martial art disciplines. However, they will "respect" an equal or greater force/threat than they present. That is why I carry, and with one in the chamber.
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  12. #57
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    You sound rather confident in your assessment. I don't see it that way. I am quite certain I can prevail in 75% of self-defense situations without a gun at all. I'm quite certain that a completely unloaded gun (no rounds even in the magazine) would add an additional 20% to that success rate, just by brandishing the weapon to the bad guy. I'm also quite certain that carrying an unchambered gun would allow me to prevail in all but the most unexpected situations (such as presented in this video).

    Perhaps your definition of "self defense encounter" includes that all such encounters will be a bad guy with a gun who intends to kill you. My definition of "self defense encounter" includes many other more likely scenarios.

    Consider the following. If the law only provided you are allowed to carry a gun if it is unchambered. For example, people who open-carry in California can't even keep a magazine in their gun, but they still carry anyway. So if the law were written as such, would you just leave your gun at home because you consider it useless without a round in the chamber?
    You throw those figures around pretty good. Have you been in a self defense situation, were you might have needed your gun? If not I would be careful How you present things that YOU think are fact, when others know better.
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  13. #58
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    bunker: Quite the example. By the way, I think Ms. # 2 is the winner here!!!!!
    Chicken Little? Who the heck is Chicken Little? And what does she know, anyway?!

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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorCityGun View Post
    OK, I guess it's my turn to add my 2 yen to this, already lengthy and somewhat, redundant thread. Like adric22, I too, consider myself to be well-versed and trained in the "martial arts"...30+ years, in fact, and still actively training/working out. Therefore, am I able to "handle" myself physically, shall we say, better than the average guy my age?...ubetcha'. But am I so naive, or even delusional enough to believe that I could get out of every physical or life threatening encounter towards me or my family using situational awareness, hand-to-hand fighting techniques, eloquent reasoning, street psychology, etc.?; my realistic and humble answer, of course, is "H-E-Double Hockey Sticks, NO".

    With all due modesty and self-actualized and proven capabilities, I'm still able to outrun my 12 yr old (hockey playing) grand nephew, I'm still able to spar/fight (without helmuts or pads) against studs in their 20's and 30's, I can still deliver hand or foot blows that will knock most men unconscience or render them incapacitated, blah, blah, blah. But this takes place in a "controlled" environment within strict guidelines and rules. And as others have previously and so eloquently noted, the BG(s) could care less about whether I hold 1 or 10 black belts in 10 different martial art disciplines. However, they will "respect" an equal or greater force/threat than they present. That is why I carry, and with one in the chamber.
    Good post..You seem to understand when the adrenaline dumps, your working with gross motor skills rather than fine motor skills..
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  15. #60
    Senior Member Array DaRedneck's Avatar
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    Food for thought.....

    Do you carry with a live one in the chamber?

    No, I carry with a full mag and a snap cap in the chamber.

    Well that is useless. What's the point?

    Exactly, of course I carry chambered.


    I carry chambered but I do respect the rights of others to carry how they wish. It is a personal decision and far be it from me to tell people how to live their lives. I carry chambered because it is my decision to make and mine alone.
    "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." - Leonardo da Vinci

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