Dry-Firing After Clearing - Page 2

Dry-Firing After Clearing

This is a discussion on Dry-Firing After Clearing within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by farronwolf However, the first method of clearing is exactly what I require of students during CHL courses. Mag out of gun, slide ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    However, the first method of clearing is exactly what I require of students during CHL courses. Mag out of gun, slide locked back on empty cylinder with gun laying on the table and ejection port up. I can walk up and down the line and tell right way what is what. When there are lots of students, I can't possibly tell how many clicks of firing pins there are if done the way USPSA/IDPA requires.
    Good point about classes.

    For gun classes we require the same thing.. slide locked open/cylinder open on table pointed downrange so it can be clearly seen that the firearm is unloaded.

    But no holster work is in our beginner classes.

    I guess the main difference is whether or not the firearm is expected to be carried around in a holster behind the firing line or left on a bench at the firing line.. you know?

    Left on a bench.. DEFINITELY slide lock or open cylinder.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    * Press-check

    Can't forget the press-check.
    ^ +eleventybillion.

    I keep bringing up my training-class embarrassments not because I like to embarrass myself, but because I hope other noobs can learn from them, too.

    One of my most embarrassing moments happened in one of my first classes. Right before running the shoot-house, the instructor asked me: "You fine with the condition of your weapon?"

    I replied, in all seriousness, "Yes sir." Got my game face on, and drew and made ready as soon as he gave me the command to do so.

    Yep, sure enough, I pressed the trigger that first time, and got a whole fist-full of nada. Popped behind cover and did a tap-and-rack, and what do you know: no brass comes flying out...instead, it's a live cartridge being fed into an empty breech.

    I muttered "Oh Crap!"

    My instructor just tapped me on my back and said "yeah, I tried to tell ya." Then he yelled "GO!!!!"

    I haven't forgotten a press-check, ever, since that day.
    Last edited by limatunes; July 18th, 2011 at 04:20 PM. Reason: language

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Nothing wrong with it at all, so long as the muzzle is oriented in a safe direction.

    Matt
    +1

    I noticed that you did this during your 'using public restrooms' video, limatunes, but assumed by your demeanor that this was a standard of some sort. While this would seem to technically violate Jeff Cooper's Rule #2, to me the important thing is that you have a reason for doing so & you are aiming at a safe area - one that would likely absorb any round that might be issued. Plus, you have many (many, many) more hours of training & handling than I!

    I own a Glock as well & I tell ya...I'm clearing & checking & clearing & checking before I pull the trigger (while aimed at my phone books) for disassembly. This seems to be a good paranoia to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    Right or wrong, that IS the GLOCK factory recommended method of storage, i.e. unloaded with the trigger in the rearward position.

    I do exactly the same as you. The danger comes in when we are exceedingly tired or distracted. I have tried to instill a sense of imperative in myself that any time I am handling, and particularly stowing, firearms, I give the process my full attention. I am not conversing with anyone, watching TV, or anything other than unloading and securing firearms. I guess you could say it is an "active" task as opposed to a "passive" task. If that makes any sense.
    I'd buy that for a dollar!

    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    * Press-check

    Can't forget the press-check.
    That's a new term to me! Boy, lurnin' is fun!!
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    The standard operating procedure for while I was employed behind the gun counter was as follows:

    • Customer asks to see gun.
    • Take gun out of case, clear it, hand it to customer with slide locked back, cylinder open, etc.
    • When customer hands the gun back, clear the gun again, point it at the floor (in the safest direction) and dry-fire (unless it had a decocking mechanism or was a .22 then you should use the decocker or lower the hammer manually).
    • If a safety could be put on.. put it on.
    • Put it back in case.


    Upon starting IDPA this practice was reinforced.
    "Show clear!"
    Show firearm clear to the RO.
    "Hammer down!"
    Dry-fire into berm.

    I can't remember a single time I have not done this practice when clearing handguns.

    Remove magazine, clear chamber, check chamber, point in a safe direction, dry-fire.

    In my opinion I am not breaking any of the rules of gun handling. I am treating the firearm as though it were loaded. I am pointing the firearm in a safe direction. I am not putting my finger on the trigger until I am ready to fire (or in this case, dry-fire). I am aware of my target and what is beyond.

    On both of the firearms I carry (a 1911 or Glock) this gives me a visual clue the firearm has not been messed with or handled since I cleared it. If the hammer is down on my 1911 or the trigger has not been reset on my Glock I know the slide has not been racked. Even if the firearm were to be picked up by a novice and played with the slide would have to be operated and the trigger is pretty much inoperable.

    Of course I always check a firearm every time I pick it up but dry-firing is something I have always done upon clearing my semi-autos (provided it is safe to dry-fire).

    Some have seen this practice and questioned whether or not it is a bad habit saying that I could get complacent with my dry-firing and unintentionally fire a round.

    I suppose anything is possible... but I have yet to disrespect any handgun or the rules of operating those handguns to the point where I carelessly put my finger on the trigger or dry-fired in an unsafe direction/manner.

    JD and I talked about it this morning and he agrees that it has always been a practice of his as well and he sees nothing wrong with it.

    What say ye? Reasonable clearing method or bad habit?
    I run dry fire drills at home all the time. So I see nothing wrong with dry firing. My only concern would be training scars. My EDC has a decocker on it. When I hear the click of an empty chamber I immediately tap and rack. Its my training, and again my only concern regarding what you are doing.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkhmAsylm View Post

    That's a new term to me! Boy, lurnin' is fun!!
    In case you are curious and/or haven't figured it out yet, a press check means you press the slide back only a fraction of an inch or so until you can visually confirm that there is INDEED a round chambered in the firearm without ejecting the round.

    Sometimes if your magazine isn't seated all the way you will drop the slide and it will not actually feed a round into the chamber. You THINK you have a chambered round and are carrying under the assumption you are ready to go but in the time of need you draw your gun and pull the trigger to hear a "click" instead of "BANG!"

    Even if you store your gun in your holster it's a good practice to get into to do a press-check and magazine check every time you put your gun on.

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    In case you are curious and/or haven't figured it out yet, a press check means you press the slide back only a fraction of an inch or so until you can visually confirm that there is INDEED a round chambered in the firearm without ejecting the round.

    Sometimes if your magazine isn't seated all the way you will drop the slide and it will not actually feed a round into the chamber. You THINK you have a chambered round and are carrying under the assumption you are ready to go but in the time of need you draw your gun and pull the trigger to hear a "click" instead of "BANG!"

    Even if you store your gun in your holster it's a good practice to get into to do a press-check and magazine check every time you put your gun on.
    I've used the technique before, mostly after I started carrying full-time & keeping a round in the chamber. I went & watched a YouTube video after reading your post because I hadn't heard the term before.

    Good information, though. I'll have to start doing this regularly.

    I'll just have to stop doing it like Steven Seagal - pushing the guide rod to press check!
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  7. #22
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    OP great post I totally agree with your methods except the physically checking the chanber part...but thats a throw back to my training I received in the navy on the m16 whose bolt carrier is pretty easy to release with a relatively light jar. If your finger where in the action at the time it could hurt ya pretty good. I'm not sayin your wrong by any means...I just got in the habit of not putting my finger in an action under tension. In a handgun though you would be pretty hard pressed to release a slide inadvertantly, so I'm gonna think this one over and maybe untrain that habit. Good post got me thinking about my methods, say hey to JD for me.

  8. #23
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    If I'm clearing my own weapon, or if I'm looking at one in a store, I follow the same procedure you outlined. Doesn't matter if I watched the clerk clear the weapon, as soon as it changes hands I clear it again.
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  9. #24
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    Lima:

    I see nothing wrong with "decocking" a centerfire pistol by dry firing it after unloading it. I also have no problem with leaving it cocked. The important thing is that if it's supposed to be unloaded to pay attention and unload it. and to never pull the trigger unless it's loaded/unloaded as appropriate in the circumstances and pointed at an appropriate destination. This is what you've got to pay attention to to matter how tired or distracted you are.

    Once it's unloaded it's equally inert either way. Although if you didn't unload it it's not inert in the cocked state.

    And forcing yourself to focus your attention during the brief moment this takes, no matter what, is easier than so many other areas in life where we need similar focus. For example, if you pick up a newborn you absolutely HAVE to support his/her head otherwise the neck will snap. You NEVER get to forget to pay attention to this. When you drive, you have to continuously monitor a number of things and adjust a number of controls to keep from doing a whole lot more damage than you could do with a single shot from a handgun. So developing the habit of paying attention at a few critical times in firearms handling shouldn't be that big a deal.
    In the heat of the moment, what matters is what your body knows -- not what your mind knows.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    In case you are curious and/or haven't figured it out yet, a press check means you press the slide back only a fraction of an inch or so until you can visually confirm that there is INDEED a round chambered in the firearm without ejecting the round.

    Sometimes if your magazine isn't seated all the way you will drop the slide and it will not actually feed a round into the chamber. You THINK you have a chambered round and are carrying under the assumption you are ready to go but in the time of need you draw your gun and pull the trigger to hear a "click" instead of "BANG!"

    Even if you store your gun in your holster it's a good practice to get into to do a press-check and magazine check every time you put your gun on.
    I fully agreed with the original post. I've been trained the same way about clearing and dry firing. I'm still a certified USPSA range officer. While a "press-check" or chamber check could be good, just remember that with a Glock and empty chamber, pushing the slide far enough back to see into the ejection port is enough to reset the trigger. Even on an empty chamber, a forward trigger on a Glock means it's loaded, and a rearward trigger on a Glock shows it can't be. Press check an empty Glock and you'll need to do your clearing exercises all over again. For CC, you just need to know the condition of your pistol. It's like checking the tires on your vehicle before turning the key. Once you go down the road things become obvious.....you never want to get that far with a firearm. Checking to make sure a round is chambered after it's chambered? I personally look when I load or chamber a round. Until I manipulate the pistol again, I'm sure it's loaded and ready to go. If it's been so long that I forget what condition my pistol is in, then maybe I need to check in instead of check it out. No compromise with safety for sure. There are times when over-thinking things can lead to more mistakes or lead to something we question. Reservations can lead to lack of confidence. These days it seems, there are so many distractions....or maybe it's just affecting us older folks and remembering? The next generation of CCers? What they need to know? Seems the highly trained have more accidents than those who stick to basics. How many cops have shot themselves compared to civilian CCers? Simple is the best way IMO. Think what you do, when you do. A press check is about like me over-explaining things in a post (or this reply). Something I've tried to get away from but somehow I can't. Maybe it all depends on the circumstances? Keep it simple before the SOP gets to be a mile long.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodle View Post
    OP great post I totally agree with your methods except the physically checking the chanber part...but thats a throw back to my training I received in the navy on the m16 whose bolt carrier is pretty easy to release with a relatively light jar.
    I agree about rifles like the m-16 or any firearm that has a very light release. Having had a good chunk of my palm sheared off in a closing chamber I respect the poundage being held back.. besides.. sometimes in certain firearms the chamber is too small to do a good tactile check anyway. I could do it because the tip of my pinky is about the size of a .223 but for someone with larger fingers it's a moot point.

    Quote Originally Posted by mfcmb View Post
    This is what you've got to pay attention to to matter how tired or distracted you are.
    I'm in the practice that if I'm just too darned tired or distracted the whole thing, holster and all, goes in the safe and I worry about it when I'm more alert.

    I agree with you about other things we pay attention to that are far more complicated and we do successfully.

    Loading/unloading a gun should be no different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    I fully agreed with the original post. I've been trained the same way about clearing and dry firing. I'm still a certified USPSA range officer. While a "press-check" or chamber check could be good, just remember that with a Glock and empty chamber, pushing the slide far enough back to see into the ejection port is enough to reset the trigger. Even on an empty chamber, a forward trigger on a Glock means it's loaded, and a rearward trigger on a Glock shows it can't be. Press check an empty Glock and you'll need to do your clearing exercises all over again. For CC, you just need to know the condition of your pistol. It's like checking the tires on your vehicle before turning the key. Once you go down the road things become obvious.....you never want to get that far with a firearm. Checking to make sure a round is chambered after it's chambered? I personally look when I load or chamber a round. Until I manipulate the pistol again, I'm sure it's loaded and ready to go. If it's been so long that I forget what condition my pistol is in, then maybe I need to check in instead of check it out. No compromise with safety for sure. There are times when over-thinking things can lead to more mistakes or lead to something we question. Reservations can lead to lack of confidence. These days it seems, there are so many distractions....or maybe it's just affecting us older folks and remembering? The next generation of CCers? What they need to know? Seems the highly trained have more accidents than those who stick to basics. How many cops have shot themselves compared to civilian CCers? Simple is the best way IMO. Think what you do, when you do. A press check is about like me over-explaining things in a post (or this reply). Something I've tried to get away from but somehow I can't. Maybe it all depends on the circumstances? Keep it simple before the SOP gets to be a mile long.
    Yes, I realize that on the Glock a simple press-check could reset the trigger. I've done it enough on purpose to get used to the "reset" on my Glock's trigger while doing dry-fire practice, etc.

    I, too, try to watch the round going into the chamber but maybe my eyes aren't as fast as I wish they were. I always like to check and make sure it REALLY chambered so that I know I know I know there's a round in the chamber.. granted, if I take the magazine out to top off and there is space for one more I know but I like that last little visual check.

    The reason we do a lot of checks around this house is that, having two carriers in this house who are very "into" guns is that sometimes one of the other of us will work with one gun and put it away in a different condition than it was found in. It's not a big thing since we are both very safe and competent with our firearms but I don't always know if JD wanted to take pictures of my Glock and just put in the magazine without rechambering and topping off, etc. before he put it back in the safe. It wouldn't be the first time it happened.

  12. #27
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    I didn't read every single post....Most of them though.

    I think this is still safe handling. I would say this though; 1) I live on the second floor so down is no safer than ANY direction. (literally potentially people up,down,right,left, and every diagonal angle.)
    2)If you have cement on the ground its not necessarily safe either. There was a story about a month or so ago of a ND where the round hit the ground and shrapnal wounded the mans grandmother and a small boy. (I think that was the story....)

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianator View Post
    I didn't read every single post....Most of them though.

    I think this is still safe handling. I would say this though; 1) I live on the second floor so down is no safer than ANY direction. (literally potentially people up,down,right,left, and every diagonal angle.)
    2)If you have cement on the ground its not necessarily safe either. There was a story about a month or so ago of a ND where the round hit the ground and shrapnal wounded the mans grandmother and a small boy. (I think that was the story....)
    Yes, this is a good point. Down is not always the safest direction. We used to live in an apartment where the "safest" location was out the window at the woods that bordered the property.

    Each property is different.. each moment is different.

    We have wood floors and a basement beneath us but I have to be cautious to make sure no one is in the basement before doing and clearing on the main floor.. JUST to be sure.

  14. #29
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    Yes, this is a good point. Down is not always the safest direction. We used to live in an apartment where the "safest" location was out the window at the woods that bordered the property.
    Yeah. I have a very small "safe zone" out one window... But you work with what you have. ;)

    I cannot wait to have a house again and hopefully some land as well. We shall see what God has in store for us. :)

  15. #30
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    I've never gotten into the habit of press-checks. The Glock extractor also serves as a loaded chamber indicator, as does the one on my PM9. With my LCPs, you can clearly see the round in the chamber. Guess I never felt the need, and have always been concerned about the pistol not going all the way back into battery.
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