Lasers: the good and the not so good - Page 6

Lasers: the good and the not so good

This is a discussion on Lasers: the good and the not so good within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by los Not really applicable. I use no sights or laser. I point-shoot. My concentration is always on the target and will stay ...

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456
Results 76 to 89 of 89
Like Tree16Likes

Thread: Lasers: the good and the not so good

  1. #76
    Member Array 5POINT56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by los View Post
    Not really applicable.

    I use no sights or laser. I point-shoot. My concentration is always on the target and will stay on "the target", if it ever shoots back.

    With that said, if carrying a laser equipped weapon gives you an extra dose of confidence and makes you want to carry every single time you leave the house, more power to you. Keep the laser on.
    The only confidence a laser provides is the fact that it absolutely assists in getting lead, on target, more rapidly under stressful situations.

    In the event I have to use a weapon in a CCW situation, any accuracy and speed advantages matter. And frankly, they should matter to everyone who carries defensively.

    Confidence comes in making a carry gun more effective. This discussion is not as subjective as some here have made it out to be....possibly due to a lack of understanding of how effectively a laser can actually be in areas that, without a doubt, make a difference.

    In case you missed the Larry Vickers article posted earlier: Crimson Trace Lasergrips

    20 years in Special Operations and a member of SOFD-D, Vickers is a man worth listening to.

    For any task, having the right tools make all the difference. You might use a hammer 99% of the time, but on the day when a wrench is needed and it aint in your tool box, you're outta luck. Life and death considerations dictate that I include all the tools I can to assure the right outcome.

    كافر AMERICAN INFIDEL كافر

  2. #77
    los
    los is offline
    VIP Member Array los's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Tx
    Posts
    2,553
    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    It's exactly applicable. This is where the typical laser- no laser discussion meets a impasse.

    Out of my collection of handguns I have a laser on exactly one. A S&W 642. The reason? So if the situation ever arose that I had to make areally difficult shot I could. A shot a point shooter couldn't or wouldn't take.
    Well, we can agree to disagree. One thing is fo-sho. A laser dot has to be identified before the shot is taken.

    Point-shooting is an instinctive skill, and only the Target has to be identified. This is where point-shooting rules. No time lost in trying to find the shaking dot.

    Dot intensity, bright indoor illumination or outside sunny conditions, same colored or pattered attire and overall visual confirmation are a few contributing factors that can and will compromise the ability to visually identify the Dot in an instant. These issues are completely eliminated when using the Point-Shooting method.

    In a self-defense scenario involving the use of immediate deadly force, every precious millisecond counts.
    Last edited by los; August 6th, 2011 at 01:07 PM.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  3. #78
    New Member Array a1bigtuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    San Diego, Ca
    Posts
    12
    I view the laser as just one tool in the box. Have Lasermax on my Sigs (226, 220) and a CT on my S&W 438. If a situation popped up where a laser would just flag where I am, because I was not ready to snap, don't use it. If it is too bright to be of real value, no loss, just don't use it and point or aim shoot, no loss. And where the situation is a good one for it, well, there is the answer, use it then. I have several wrenches in my tool box, not all work the best in the same situation. Doesn't seem to be a loss if you don't need it and don't use it, but if you do need it....well then use it. Just my thinking.

  4. #79
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    2,059
    Quote Originally Posted by a1bigtuna View Post
    I view the laser as just one tool in the box. Have Lasermax on my Sigs (226, 220) and a CT on my S&W 438. If a situation popped up where a laser would just flag where I am, because I was not ready to snap, don't use it. If it is too bright to be of real value, no loss, just don't use it and point or aim shoot, no loss. And where the situation is a good one for it, well, there is the answer, use it then. I have several wrenches in my tool box, not all work the best in the same situation. Doesn't seem to be a loss if you don't need it and don't use it, but if you do need it....well then use it. Just my thinking.
    It comes down to cost/benefit/frustration for me. Yeah, it would be nice if I could get a Lasermax that would work, or a CT for my Springer XD that fit my hand right, and I didn't have to spend so much for them. But I just spent too much time fussing with them for how much they cost.

  5. #80
    VIP Member Array claude clay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    2,101
    los--well said.

    add that unless the laser is mounted high along the bbl/slide that it will be obstructed when your trigger finger is
    properly pointed up high along the slide--it cuts the beam of a typical grip mounted laser.
    this causes the shooter to adapt an incorrect trigger finger location on the side of the gun--
    lower and across the trigger guard rather than above it.

    lots of reasons i think of it as better not to have on a fighting gun.
    on a target gun they have many good points.
    You plug 'em, I plant 'em
    -----------------
    ...kid can't read at 17 (Garcia/Hunter 1985)
    ----------------
    Lack of preparation on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on mine

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,068
    These laser threads get really tiresome, folks. We can debate theory all we want, but here are some testimonials from reals LEOs in real situations:

    testimonials

    Better, faster sighting under stress? Check. Ability to take shots (hostage) when you otherwise might not? Check. Intimidation that leads to compliance without the need to actually fire? Check. Advantages in training? Check. Better peripheral vision? Check. On and on - it's all there. QED.

    You can debate all you want. You can set up training scenarios to prove whatever point you wish to promote. But the lessons from the field are reality.

    If anyone knows of a police agency that issued lasers, and that later stopped using them because of lack of effectiveness - I'd love to hear it.

    Note - I'm not trying to promote Lasermax. I've had one of their lasers, and actually prefer the CT units instead. But they have their testimonials well organized on their website. You can see feedback from civilians, LEOs, and military users. You know - REAL users, with REAL world experience. Not internet talking heads...

    5POINT56 likes this.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.

    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member

  7. #82
    Member Array alienbogey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Puget Sound Area
    Posts
    264
    Quote Originally Posted by los View Post
    One thing is fo-sho. A laser dot has to be identified before the shot is taken.

    Not at all. The politest thing I can think of to say about that statement is that it's.......silly.

    The only thing that has to happen to take a shot is to pull the trigger.

    Just because a laser is installed doesn't mean that point-shooting techniques can't be used.

    Just because a laser is installed doesn't mean that the iron sights can't be used.

    If you're at bad-breath distance there is no rule that says you must find the red dot before shooting.

    If someone has mastered point-shooting and and mastered iron sights and mastered employing a laser and they know when to employ each technique then they are a true expert with a pistol - and the rest of us should shut up and go practice more.
    MotorCityGun and 5POINT56 like this.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.

  8. #83
    New Member Array a1bigtuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    San Diego, Ca
    Posts
    12
    Having complete skills with all of the possibilities of a pistol is the best of all worlds. I do not possess any one of them as much as many of you out there. And since I do not, having more tools (aids) is "mo" better for me. I do try to point shoot when at 7 or 10 yards, and also use sights, and also use the lasers to assist. Course I have only been shooting for some 52 or so years, so am still learning and will not ever be great at it. So, I need all the help I can get. So, would never completely rely on iron sights, point shooting, lasers, scopes. It will depend on the situation, and I will have to determine what avenue to take based on the situation. Hence, quick time, point shoot, time aim, more time or situation allows and dictates the use of a laser, use it.
    And, I buy most of my lasers on ebay for almost half price, like lasermax (5 of them averaging $100 to $120 and the last CT for $75, new after rebate) so the cost is not really a consideration. Just my 2 cents. Each to what pulls their trigger. I will never complain about someone point shooting at 25 yards and hitting the X.

  9. #84
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    West Branch
    Posts
    2,891
    Well, looks like from now on I'll just have to pick my {(gun) fight(s)} on my own terms.










  10. #85
    VIP Member
    Array Saber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    2,591
    I used and liked the CT grips on a rental snub although I have NO desire to have them on my EDC. I found myself focusing more on the red dot than the target area and surroundings. I simply lost perspective and quickly realized the grips were fun but not for me. Like some others' have mentioned I too like to keep things simple. Frankly, I can think of far better things to spend $300 on than a set of laser grips. Since the early 70's I've been able to hit the target fairly well with a revolver, 1911, and a few other off the wall guns just fine. However, if I get really bored I may buy a set of gold filled grips from some distant land just for fun and to be different.


    ---
    - Sent from my iPad2
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  11. #86
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    West Branch
    Posts
    2,891
    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    ...I found myself focusing more on the red dot than the target area and surroundings. I simply lost perspective ...
    - Sent from my iPad2
    +1

    Perspective is the main deal when waging weapons.

  12. #87
    Member Array 5POINT56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    61
    The focusing-on-the-dot issue isn't the fault of the CT laser. It's a user error. Though it may effect some shooters in that manner, proper training would not only allow you to correct that error, it would make you a more effective (see: speed and accuracy) defensive shooter all the way around.

    Let me put it another way. If guys who depend on weapons for their occupation, and guys who find themselves, regularly, on the "two way ranges" of the world, utilize and endorse the use of lasers, my resume isn't such that I'm in a position to dispute that....nor would I want to. There is absolutely no question that a properly trained individual with a laser mounted on their weapon, has a tool that in some circumstances gives them a vast speed and accuracy advantage. Furthermore, the circumstances in which guns are frequently employed in a defensive shooting situation are also frequently the circumstances that weapon mounted lasers are at their most effective.


    If the circumstances don't call for a laser or wouldn't benefit from a laser.....don't use a laser. But if the circumstances are different, and criminals will choose the time and place of a potential crime, and the use of a laser would provide a distinct advantage to me, guess what all of a sudden just came in really handy?
    كافر AMERICAN INFIDEL كافر

  13. #88
    Member Array 5POINT56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by a1bigtuna View Post
    ....................I will never complain about someone point shooting at 25 yards and hitting the X.
    Show me that guy do that in an extremely high stress situation, against a violent human target that's moving erratically and also shooting back and you'll have my attention.
    كافر AMERICAN INFIDEL كافر

  14. #89
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    If interested in a CT laser for a glock please see my ad in the for sale section
    thanks

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

alabama holster
,
crimson trace laser not bright
,
crimson trace laser stopped working
,

crimson trace not bright

,

crimson trace not working

,
crimson trace vs lasermax lc9
,
g26 tactical
,
lasermax or crimson trace lc9
,

lasermax vs crimson trace lc9

,
lc9 crimson trace vs lasermax
,
lc9 lasermax vs crimson trace
,
night sights vs laser
Click on a term to search for related topics.