Ruger LC9 Review - and why I sold it - Page 4

Ruger LC9 Review - and why I sold it

This is a discussion on Ruger LC9 Review - and why I sold it within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Gaius Depending on whose stats you read, the typical gunfight (over 80%) takes place within less than ten feet. (See Mann, "Modern ...

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Thread: Ruger LC9 Review - and why I sold it

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Depending on whose stats you read, the typical gunfight (over 80%) takes place within less than ten feet. (See Mann, "Modern Day Gunslinger") i think we sometimes confuse precision with accuracy. For defensive shooting, precision is not the primary virtue, accuracy is. By precision I am referring to that nice tight group at 10 to 20 yards. Combat accuracy is sometimes defined as an eight inch "group" at 21 feet. I have numerous handguns that I use for precision/competition shooting. My CCW is designed to stop the immediate close quarters threat. In my opinion, if you are shooting a two to three inch group at say 7 yards, you are shooting too slowly and need to work on your speed. Flame suit on.

    I LOVE this analysis
    . You are right on the mark and I have 'stolen' your point of view (which you stole from Mann, lol).

    I did the usual stupid thing of trying to enhance the accuracy and wish I had thought about precision. Still, I'd love to get a Kahr PM9 or one of that line if they would just have better quality control, I'd be sold.


  2. #47
    Senior Member Array MilitaryArms's Avatar
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    The problem with averages is that there are people on both ends of the average. While the average gun fight may take place at 10 feet, there are a number of folks that found themselves fighting at 25 yards or perhaps more. I don't think a good plan calls for assuming you'll fall within the average. A good plan takes into account all possibilities then works from there. Sure, concessions must be made. Size, weight, capacity, etc. But I don't plan for averages, I plan for worse case scenarios and work backwards from there.

    A primary "virtue" for any fighting firearm should be ergonomics and ease of use which will translate into accurate aimed and point fire. You may make concessions in a number of areas, but sacrificing things like ergonomics or even good triggers is a bad idea, IMHO.
    atctimmy, Philly Boy and paching like this.
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  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post
    The problem with averages is that there are people on both ends of the average. While the average gun fight may take place at 10 feet, there are a number of folks that found themselves fighting at 25 yards or perhaps more. I don't think a good plan calls for assuming you'll fall within the average. A good plan takes into account all possibilities then works from there. Sure, concessions must be made. Size, weight, capacity, etc. But I don't plan for averages, I plan for worse case scenarios and work backwards from there.
    True, dat. Unfortunately, or maybe righteously, fighting at 25 yards is more like 'hunting' than self-defense, wouldn't you say? I mean unless you're defending against a grizzly bear.

    Totally agree on the good trigger, though. Ergonomics is important also - the gun should orient correctly with a simple handshaking.

  4. #49
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    Life is too short to waste time on a turd. If you don't like the gun, any gun, get something else.

    They'll make more of them if you want another one later on.
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    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  5. #50
    New Member Array mattsvensson's Avatar
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    After 120 rounds through the LC9, I had 3 failure to fires today due to light primer strikes. First 20 rounds of the 'new' ammo worked prior to the F2Fs

  6. #51
    Member Array m287452's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardogV1 View Post
    I agree with you, when I practice with my carry pistols I am usually shooting at paper plates @ 21' and if I am on the plate, I am happy. Lay a plate on your chest and you will see that it shows plenty of accuracy for defensive work. YMMV

    OP,
    I see you are looking at getting a MK9, a very nice gun but a little heavy for the size, not to mention the price. Have you considered the new Kahr CM9? much lighter for carry and affordable. I bought one the first day they were released for sale and I am very happy with it.
    In all honesty, I don't think I could hit a paper plate reliably at 21' with the LC9. The thing was all over the place. In the end the thin grip combined with the heavy-mushy trigger could have been overcome with a hogue grip and more practice, but I tend to be a perfectionist and I like my guns, my motorcycles, my cars, and my women to be unique, eclectic and of the highest quality. In other words, I would rather save up for a really good one than have a few that are so-so.

    So I eventually got the MK9. What a gun! Yes, a bit heavy but I wear it IWB with jeans and a proper belt, so no issues there. I got the elite model with night sights and it is everything I dreamed and more. Incredible accuracy from a standing position out to 25 yards - I can make them all headshots with about 1 second between each shot. The trigger is long but light, with a crisp break pretty far back but still within a comfortable reach. I could shoot the gun all day.

    I am going to write a review on it soon.

  7. #52
    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post
    The problem with averages is that there are people on both ends of the average. While the average gun fight may take place at 10 feet, there are a number of folks that found themselves fighting at 25 yards or perhaps more. I don't think a good plan calls for assuming you'll fall within the average. A good plan takes into account all possibilities then works from there. Sure, concessions must be made. Size, weight, capacity, etc. But I don't plan for averages, I plan for worse case scenarios and work backwards from there.
    I respectfully disagree. Apart from military and police, I would very much like to see how many civilian CCW holders who actually have had to use their weapon in self defense have found it necessary to engage at ranges of 25 yards or more. If we can even find such situations, I suspect they are extremely rare. I will take it a step further. As this forum deals with civilian CCW holders, I believe that it is NOT a good course of instruction to try and teach a student "all possibilities" as these are endless. Now certainly many on this forum are also enthusiasts/hobbyists who shoot not only to gain proficiency in self defense but also because, well, they like it and it's their hobby. And that's great. But when it comes to dealing with civilians who may ultimately practice only a few times a year, (not a month or week) I personally believe that this time is by far better spent dealing with the realities of street defense, that is, and I apologize for the term, "playing the averages."
    Best way to win a gun fight? "That's easy, don't show up."
    --Wyatt Earp

    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything."
    -- Wyatt Earp

  8. #53
    Ex Member Array LSP972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post
    The problem with averages is that there are people on both ends of the average. While the average gun fight may take place at 10 feet, there are a number of folks that found themselves fighting at 25 yards or perhaps more. I don't think a good plan calls for assuming you'll fall within the average. A good plan takes into account all possibilities then works from there. Sure, concessions must be made. Size, weight, capacity, etc. But I don't plan for averages, I plan for worse case scenarios and work backwards from there.
    Bingo! Well stated.

    The guy who said he wasn't interested in precision should take comfort from the fact that the odds of him having to make a head shot to defend himself or a loved one are very long... until, of course, the situation arises.

    Playing the odds is for suckers. This guy has it dead-bang; one should prepare for all contingencies.

    .

  9. #54
    Member Array Bear4570's Avatar
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    I have to agree with one of the earlier posters regarding the trigger pull compared to a S&W double action revolver trigger pull, Not even close. That being said, moderatley priced, accurate after spending some time mastering the trigger, reliable with everything I have fed it, no FFT or FTE, acceptable caliber, easily carried. Exactly what I wanted when I bought it, suits my purpose just fine, was hoping my wife would like it, but she does not like the small grip as she has pretty big hands for a women and was uncomfortable for her to shoot, it did not bother me..I still prefer my snubbie revolvers, but to me it is not a bad choice and I will be holding on to it. Now the LCP that I sold, that's another story.

  10. #55
    Ex Member Array LSP972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    If we can even find such situations, I suspect they are extremely rare.
    They are indeed rare in civilian encounters. They are rare in police shootings too... but I have two friends who found themselves having to engage at distance, one at almost 50 yards and the other with multiple assailants in a parking lot. His longest "hit" was a measured 92 feet.

    Again, playing the odds is risky. The fact that perhaps one in 100 CCW holders has to engage past arm's length won't do you much good when YOU find yourself in that position. You can talk about realities all you want. The reality is, distance encounters DO occur. If you choose not to prepare for that possibility, that's your concern. But to dismiss the notion out of hand is silly.

    I understand where you're coming from, and while your point has validity, it ignores the responsibility an instructor has to his students. If nothing else, exposing the nimrod to distance shooting will, so to speak, open his eyes...

    I do not use the term "nimrod" in a disparaging manner. As you alluded to, most CCW folks are not "gun folk". They just want to feel safe, and on the face of it could not be expected to be any more interested in the details of shooting than I would be interested in the nuances of making a good golf putt. The difference is, if I screw up a putt, I won't cause injury to another, won't PREVENT injury to another, and certainly won't put myself in a legal bind.

    You strap up, you assume an awesome responsibility. Very few "non-gun" folks grasp that... or seem to care.

    .

  11. #56
    Member Array 1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    They are indeed rare in civilian encounters. They are rare in police shootings too... but I have two friends who found themselves having to engage at distance, one at almost 50 yards and the other with multiple assailants in a parking lot. His longest "hit" was a measured 92 feet.

    Again, playing the odds is risky. The fact that perhaps one in 100 CCW holders has to engage past arm's length won't do you much good when YOU find yourself in that position. You can talk about realities all you want. The reality is, distance encounters DO occur. If you choose not to prepare for that possibility, that's your concern. But to dismiss the notion out of hand is silly.

    I understand where you're coming from, and while your point has validity, it ignores the responsibility an instructor has to his students. If nothing else, exposing the nimrod to distance shooting will, so to speak, open his eyes...

    I do not use the term "nimrod" in a disparaging manner. As you alluded to, most CCW folks are not "gun folk". They just want to feel safe, and on the face of it could not be expected to be any more interested in the details of shooting than I would be interested in the nuances of making a good golf putt. The difference is, if I screw up a putt, I won't cause injury to another, won't PREVENT injury to another, and certainly won't put myself in a legal bind.

    You strap up, you assume an awesome responsibility. Very few "non-gun" folks grasp that... or seem to care.

    .
    The incidents that you mention are NOT self defense distances.
    CCW license is for self defense, not Rambo want to play cop actions.

  12. #57
    Ex Member Array slave's Avatar
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    I dunno guys, I shot my wife's LC9 last week, I put all 7 rounds in a hole the size of a quarter, at 7 meters. I love her gun, and am going to get one for a BUG.

  13. #58
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    I checked it out at the range and honestly it's not for me, but I think it would be good for what it's designed for..close quater self defense.
    Why?? Because at the last second, the Police are minutes away.

  14. #59
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    Many years ago in 1984 S&W came out with a compact 9mm IIRC the 469 and I purchased it for off duty,the trigger had a long DA pull and with my finger pad on the trigger as I normally shoot,before the trigger broke I was literally pinching my skin behind the trigger to get the shot off even in SA mode,only way my skin wouldn't get pinched was if I used the very tip of my trigger finger,I sold that thing as soon as I finished qualifying with it
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  15. #60
    Ex Member Array LSP972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959 View Post
    The incidents that you mention are NOT self defense distances.
    CCW license is for self defense, not Rambo want to play cop actions.
    Please show me the definition of "self defense distances". Oh, wait...you cannot, except for what your opinion may be.

    .

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