When do you ever trust again? A gun that is

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Thread: When do you ever trust again? A gun that is

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    When do you ever trust again? A gun that is

    Question for all of you out there about trusting guns that start out bad. Do you ever trust them again? Say we get a new gun and it jams, stove pipes, etc., afterall, it's possible with any gun and more likely with some, right? So you get it, it doesn't work and you send it back. You get it back and it works great and you run 500 rounds or so through it and call it good. Does it work like that for you?

    Now I suppose it depends on what was wrong with it and what kind of gun it is. If it's a top end 1911 with FTE, that is one thing but what about a kelTec P3AT that's had a variety of malfunctions and several trips back to the factory.

    And here's how I'll be applying your answer; I'd like to buy one of those Springfild Army micro GI .45's and just work on it bit by bit over the years. In the end I'll have as much in it as if I'd bought the Kimber CDP or top of the line SA but I could get it, shoot it and then take my time.

    So it's a 3" .45 and you know that can mean trouble but they have a lifetime warranty, so if I get it and it has problems I send it in. If they fix it, I can trust it right? Even it it makes 2 trips?

    See where I'm going with this

    I still carry a Keltec P3at first generation that was horrible at first. made two trips back to factory and had several different problems including a break in the trigger assemly so the trigger become disconnected. Now it seems to work fine. I shot a mag or two every few weeks but in the back of my mind...., you know...

    Anyway, looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

    God Bless
    Gideon

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Just after I got back from my 1st tour in Iraq, I took my CC weapon out for a day at the range. While there, I had an ammo malfunction (pulled trigger--*POP*--extractor and part of the brass case hit me in the eye--wearing protection).

    After I got the slide back from SIG--gratis, along with new springs and pins--I took it out to the range and put at least 500 rouds through it. After that I was confident in the weapon AND my ammo.

    (BTW--after my weapon went POP--I changed to his big brother, P226/.40S&W)

    My advice--keep putting rounds through it, running through different drills and scenarios--don't baby it!...if SHTF, you need it to work NOW..under any condition.

    Remember the rules for gunfighting (i.e. not Fight Club--we don't talk about it here )...but Have a Gun...and Have a Gun that works every time.

    Mike in VA

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    JD
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    Levels of trust are built on the range, if you have problems are they get worked out and you never have a hitch for the next 500 rounds....I'd say your golden, but that doesn't mean your weapon is impervious to Murphy...that's why you do clearing drills, that's why you train. Don't "What if" yourself to death, but try to cover the failure bases on the range. If you don't feel that you can depend on the gun GET RID OF IT. I had a Kahr PM40 that I never had a problem with and it shot great but the fact it had no manual safeties bothered the heck out of me, needless to say after 2 weeks of carry and worry I traded it away. Life is full of worries, worrying about weather or not your firearm will perform is something I don't want to worry about. All of my guns have fired 300 rounds straight without a firearm related malfunction, I may have fumbled a time or two but my firearms are solid as can be.

    I have had some issues but usually it tends to be magazines, my wifes Kimber Ultra had major issues, but it was the MecGar magazines that came with it(we bought it used) now that I have some mags from Tripp Research....problems gone.

    So in summary, if the weapon doesn't perform to YOUR standards and is not fixed by one little thing or another...you might want to get somthing elese....

    3" 1911 $700
    3 good mags $60.00
    2 boxes 230gr JHP $50.00

    Piece of mind=PRICELESS

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    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
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    once I lose confidence in a weapon I never trust it.
    I'll keep it for the range but I'll never CCW it.
    Doesn't matter what I do to "fix" it.
    In the back of my head, is that it failed once before.

    AFS
    Gun control is hitting what you aim at

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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    All depends on what was the problem .. on a 1911 a extractor breaks replace it put 250 rounds then if no problems its good to go..

    All depends what problem is on how many rounds i wanna see it run before i decide if i trust it

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    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    I hear what your saying, as it is hard to trust one again. So if I can't get it going or I am not comfortable with it I send it to my gun smith then. He is flawless with reliability issues and everytime I had a problem or I couldn't either work it out or fix it myself he is able to. If Otto does a tune for me I will carry it.


    Ti.
    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

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    I bought a NIB Colt Defender about 2 years ago, and right out of the box it was nothing but trouble. I returned it to the factory 3 times, and it still wasn't 100% reliable (when it did work, it was mighty sweet... ), so I got rid of it.

    The HK .40 Compact that I carry now has been 100%...no malfunctions of any kind...through at least 2000 rounds. That is a confidence inspiring performance...why settle for less?
    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

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    Member Array NaturalSelection's Avatar
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    http://combatcarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10972

    i dont carry because i enjoy it, i carry to protect the lives of myself and my loved ones. once my confidence is shaken in a weapon, its gone. i figure my life is worth more than taking a chance on crap thats been "fixed".

  10. #9
    Member Array xeero's Avatar
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    Is it common for a brand new autoloader to malfunction (stovepipe, FTE or slide locks open prematurely before empty clip) during the break-in period? My Glock 36 (compact .45) has had those problems. I think i'm at 700 rounds through it so far and i still had a malfunction within the last 100 rounds. Some tell me it's probably my error, which it might be.. not sure. Maybe my wrists are too limp for this little firecracker. btw, I use stock magazines. Someone suggested I take it to a gunsmith to have it checked. But, since we're on this topic I was wondering about the "break in period" and what's normally expected during this time.

    If malfunctions aren't "expected" during the first 500 rounds (?) or so, then I'll look for a gunsmith to examine it. If it malfunctions for me every 150-250 rounds then I can't carry it. Otherwise, I was thinking of going with a compact 9mm for carry and a full size .45 for home (both Springfield Armory XD for consistency). I'll pass on a shotgun while I live in an apartment bldg.

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    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    i dont carry because i enjoy it, i carry to protect the lives of myself and my loved ones. once my confidence is shaken in a weapon, its gone. i figure my life is worth more than taking a chance on crap thats been "fixed".

    I concur, but I look at it as if my gun smith finished what the factory couldn't. Anytime I have dropped one off to him it has come back 100% without any problems and have never had to make a trip back to him let alone 3 trips!


    Ti
    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

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    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    [Getting out pointy statistics hat...] After a mechanical device has been properly repaired, its mean time to failure is the same as a new device, good or bad. That means that you don't know how good or bad a mechanical device is going to be until you have some history on it AFTER it has been repaired. So if you have a confidence level with a new gun after say, 200 rounds, then after a gun that had a mechanical failure was properly repaired, then 200 rounds should restore your confidence level in the gun, logically speaking. [Taking off pointy statistics hat]

    But people are not always logical, and usually ignore statistics. So if you do not feel confident with a gun, sell it to someone who will feel that way, and get something else. Battles are won or lost in the minds of the combatants.

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    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
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    I have a WartHog that has never given me a minutes trouble, I have a LTC that was having some problems with going all the way into battery at times. After a trip to my gunsmith for a reliability job, and I know it functions now with no problems. I carry it a lot.

  14. #13
    Member Array gunmetal's Avatar
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    Personally, I would "trust" a new auto enough to be confident carrying if it functioned fine in the first 200-300 rounds of practice ammo, and then another 100-200 rounds of carry ammo.

    If it had problems and then went back to the factory, I would probably subject it to the above again, plus a little more. Just my current way of looking at things.

    This sort of thread is also a reminder of why it's a good idea to carry a backup when possible.

    Wrt: limp-wristing.. I know this will be controversial, but frankly, if my automatic can't handle even the slightest degree of limp-wristing I wouldn't trust it too much. There can be many conditions under which you'd fire without a perfectly-locked wrist/arm. I'm still putting my pistol through its paces, but I'll be sure to fire at least several mags full deliberately limp-wristed. If it can't reliably handle that, I'll end up using something else in the long run.

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    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    When Taurus introduced the PT140 around 5 years ago, I had purchased one of the 1st generation pistols. It always shot well, and never had an issue with it. A few years later, I was reading info on taurus handguns on another forum and was amazed to read alot of PT140's that had problems with internal frame cracking.
    Well the last thing I wanted was for the gun to crumble in my hands if I was gonna protect myself, and as luck runs with me it probably would. I could never get my mind off the issue, still it shot well.
    It was starting to get to me, so...I sold it.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    This is a tough one.

    For me, it depends on what type of failure I have and what caused it. Many problems can be traced to ammo or shooter error and once that is recognized, it's a matter of correcting the error. Sometimes a problem is caused by parts that aren't "factory", like aftermarket magazines. Again, a simple problem to correct once the cause is known.

    ANY gun can have a failure at any time, regardless of how well made. I've seen $100 "Saturday night specials" shoot 1,000's of rounds over many years and never have a problem. I've also known $2,000+ high end, big name guns that spent more time in the repair shop than they did with their owners. What type of error/failure is the gun experiencing. Is the gun's problem one that will prevent it from being fired, or simply require you to clear the problem before you continue (you should know how to do that anyway)? When did the problem happen; was it while the gun was new (say, less than 200 rds through it) or has it had 5,000 shots or more fired from it? It's like owning a car. Most new cars need a break-in adjustment or two during the first year and then are fine, while once you hit that 100,000 mile mark, age take a toll and things just start to wear out. Between the two, most things should work as advertised with proper care and use.

    Personally, unless the problem is something that has happened more than once or the gun has had numerous, different failures, I'd say give it a chance to be repaired, especially if it's a good gun for you otherwise and you like it. If you can get it repaired and can fire another 400-500 rounds without anything going wrong, I think you'd be safe.

    Finally, it's up to you. If you just can't feel comfortable with a gun and are always expecting the "worst" to happen, then get rid of it or use it for something other than as a personal defense weapon.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

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