Rethinking the 1911.
This is a discussion on Rethinking the 1911. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I went to the range again today and I must say I do shoot the 1911 better than most pistols so far.
I am still ...
September 3rd, 2011 08:01 PM
Rethinking the 1911.
I went to the range again today and I must say I do shoot the 1911 better than most pistols so far.
I am still struggling with the two safeties on the gun, I know practice, practice, practice.
For a range gun it is great, for concealed carry it is going to take a lot of muscle memory to make it work for me. To start with I like simple and to have to manipulate two safeties is a pain. I shoot a snubbie and a Kahr PM9 very simple straight forward point and shoot.
I am not complaining about the 1911 platform it has served well for 100 years, I don't think I'm suited to the platform, time will tell.
The 45 ACP cartridge is great, I am reloading 200 SWC and they are working flawless in my SA 1911A1 Loaded, I might try another platform in the 45 ACP cartridge.
Here is my question if you have similar experience with the 1911 platform or others and made a switch to a different platform?
September 3rd, 2011 08:57 PM
I was a Glock fan (still am) but a shot timer enlightened me to the advantage of the 1911 platform.
Another bonus, the 1911 is thinner than the Glock which enhances IWB comfort.
Do some timed double taps (with an accuracy component / requirement) comparing the Kahr or 642 to your 1911 and see if there is a difference.
9mm +P minimum. 357 Sig, 40, 10mm or 45 preferred.
September 3rd, 2011 09:22 PM
The bottom line for me, is that if I had to choose a handgun to take to a gunfight (I'd prefer a long gun), it would be a 1911. I tend to shoot them better than pretty much everything else. And I have confidence in the performance of the .45ACP. You should carry the gun that is most comforting to you if you need to use it, not because it is the most comfortable to carry.
So I find ways to be able to carry a full sized 1911, and multiple spare mags, to make up for the somewhat limited capacity. There are sometimes I need to step down to something else, but I generally try to stick with my 1911 as much as possible.
As for muscle memory, the grip safety shouldn't take any as long as you have a good firing grip. The thumb safety is something you just need to learn, it is just part of the draw for me.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
September 3rd, 2011 09:56 PM
When I started shooting centerfire handguns in the mid 70's most everyone had to shoot a "magnum" revolver of some make or another.
But some of us read Col. Cooper in G&A Magazine & a "cult movement" of .45 acp shooters was born there were other semi auto handguns out there...but know one chamioned them.
So what I'm saying is for a lot of shooters ( old guys) the 1911 learning curve is a very distant memory. But it was there.
In a few thousand more rounds a 1911 will be as second nature to you as driving your truck is now.
Until that time, that is if you choose to stick with the old war horse carry what gives you confidence.
If a 1911 dosent work for it dosent work & there's no shame in that as there are a lot of good handguns in this day & age.
The important thing is knowing how to use what you choose and having the courage and convection to carry it.
September 3rd, 2011 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by MichSteve
What's the question?
September 3rd, 2011 10:16 PM
Hard to beat a proven winner. You may want to try a DA/SA pistol without a safety like a HK P30 V3.
September 4th, 2011 05:20 AM
I don't understand your issue with the GS, just get a handful of gun and it's disengaged. The thumb safety will present a learning curve, but if you train to draw and shoot high thumb on the safety it will become natural to click it off when the muzzle comes on target. Drawing to dry fire practice will help immensely with muscle memory and will develop into a natural movement over time. I've been carrying 1911's for 17 years after a start with a Glock platform. I still switch over to a DA/SA and striker fired platforms on occasion, but since I turned 21 I've always had some version of 1911 in my collection.
September 4th, 2011 09:17 AM
There are many fine firearms chambered in .45 besides 1911s.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!http://www.handgunlaw.us
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
September 4th, 2011 09:47 AM
When it comes to defensive handguns I am a firm believer in point and click. The only gun I carry that departs from that philosophy is my H&K P7 which also requires a firm grip to activate the cocking lever in addition to a trigger press.
I currently own and have carried 1911's in the past so I am not down on them in any way at all. If you really like the platform just make sure you've got a good one and practice, practice, practice.
But I have had problems with grip safeties on 1911's (with and without the memory bump) and XD's. No big deal on the range but the XD's are gone and the 1911's are range guns only now.
There are plenty of dangerous men carrying 1911's so it must be an individual thing that has something to do with hand size and shape.
Edit: Some of the old-timers pinned the grip safety but in today's world that might lead to criminal and civil liability issues if you ever have to defend yourself.
September 4th, 2011 09:50 AM
The grip safety is a non-issue. Unless your gripping it too low, it should disengage when you wrap your hand around the grip. The thumb safety is just a matter of practice. The practice doesn't have to be done at the range. Unload your gun. Check to verify it's unloaded, check it again, then with the hammer cocked, just sit and engage and disengae the safety. In time it will become second nature.
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NRA Life Member
September 4th, 2011 10:03 AM
I don't understand how manipulating the grip safety is a pain unless you have some very unusual technique. Grip gun to shoot and it is manipulated.
September 4th, 2011 10:04 AM
I grip the gun high and with good pressure, if I ride my thumb on the safety this sometimes releases the grip safety, if I leave my thumb below the safety no
problem. I realize it is a training issue and maybe a different thumb safety may help. Like I said it shoots great and I love the trigger, I just not sure it will ever be carried for a CCW.
September 4th, 2011 10:27 AM
If you're grip isn't releasing the grip safety then you're not gripping the gun firm enough. The web of your hand should push up into the crook of the grip safety and when you wrap your three fingers around the grip frame the safety will be released and the thumb safety should be well within your reach.
Originally Posted by MichSteve
I don't shoot thumbs high and have no issues with either safety, but I've been shooting 1911s that way for a looooong time. I still spend time each week practicing my draw and releasing the locks on my holster and the thumb safety. The trick is to have your grip right before you draw the gun, when you reach for your gun in the holster the web of your hand should be the first thing to touch the gun and push into the safety as I described above, wrap your fingers around to complete your grip and then sweep the thumb safety off as you draw. If you ride the thumb safety leave your thumb there or else let it slide off the safety to complete your grip, revolver style, which is the way I shoot.
Of course there's any number of other ways to do it and I'm sure that someone will come along to say I'm wrong, but that's how I was taught 40 years ago by my father, who was a shooting instructor and champion marksman in the military, and it's worked very well for me. It's fast, secure, allows for a strong one handed grip out of the holster, everything is lined up for an accurate shot, and never a problem with releasing the safeties.
"If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper
September 4th, 2011 10:34 AM
A LOT of folks have had your same problem, that's why the grip safety's were pinned, or wrapped with rubber bands, and why the memory bump was designed in the first place. It comes from using the high hold, not a low hold as was mentioned. If you know someone that is good with 1911, they can manipulate the leaf on the sear spring that places the GS in the safe position, and/or they can remove a little metal from the arm on the GS to give a slightly earlier release. That's if you want to stay with the 1911 platform, as was mentioned, there are many nice .45 ACP out there. Or, you can shoot low thumb
Originally Posted by MichSteve
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
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September 4th, 2011 11:42 AM
I like the extra grip safety of the 1911. For me it ensures a ND or AD is near impossible. Even if my thumb safety was somehow off, and my holster failed and allowed the trigger to depress, it still won't fire while riding in it's holster.
I practice a LOT with dry fires of my real gun and with a similar air soft when playing around with my son. the thumb safety becomes second nature after time.
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