1911 carry question

1911 carry question

This is a discussion on 1911 carry question within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello all, I am in WI and preparing for the first of November when carry becomes legal. I am curious how many of you that ...

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    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    1911 carry question

    Hello all, I am in WI and preparing for the first of November when carry becomes legal. I am curious how many of you that carry a 1911 use a retention strap rig to be sure that if the safety fails or is disengaged the hammer cannot be dropped to discharge the weapon. I was told this is the only way to carry condition one by one group and told that open top is fine by others.


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    I have used an open top holster for many years and have never had a worry about the safety being disengaged or the weapon falling out and discharging. As far as the safety failing that is highly unlikely due to the design of the safety.
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    sgb
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    Been carrying a 1911 for over 30 years and never needed a retention strap. A GOOD QUALITY open top holster is all you need.

    Last edited by sgb; September 15th, 2011 at 05:46 AM.
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    Nope - no retention device needed. Holsters are Milt Sparks Summer Special and Horseshoe Leather #28.
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    The 1911 has multiple safeties:

    a. thumb safety
    b. grip safety
    c. (if series 80) firing pin block
    d. you

    If I owned a handgun with all of those safeties, and I was still concerned about the hammer falling unintentionally, I would be hesitant to even LOAD it, let alone carry it in ANY holster.

    It is good that you are concerned about doing things safely. However, you can go overboard with it. The thumb break holster is great as a retention device, and if that is what you are looking for, fine. If you are just looking at it as an additional safety, then I respectfully suggest that you may not be confident in your firearm. If that is the case, then you may want to rethink your choice if self defense tools. There are a great many DA/SA, DAO or even striker-fired choices out there.

    I carry a SAO firearm every day (not a 1911) in an open topped concealment holster with no worries at all.

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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Doubledown:

    First off, WELCOME TO THE FORUM You will find great folks on here, very respectful of each other. There are lots of very, very experienced folks on here and some great advice and lots and lots of knowledge about CC (Concealed Carry).

    To answer your question a step further, I would agree that a GOOD QUALITY holster is needed--expect to pay $100 or so. Also, you need a good quality belt, that is designed to carry the weight of a gun. I got mine from the Beltman, but there are other folks out there that make good quality gun belts--it makes a heck of a lot of difference in comfortably carrying. Go to the "Holster" thread on this site and study up....

    Now, to your specific question about carrying in condition 1 (cocked and locked), try this experiment--take your 1911, unload it, cock and lock (hammer back, safety ON), and put it in your holster and wear it around the house, go jogging, bike riding, jump up and down--do anything you can, work on your car (although I wouldn't recommend taking it in the shower ) and do this for a couple of weeks. The point is to gain confidence that the two safeties (the thumb safety AND the grip safety) will function as they were designed.

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    Welcome to the forum.

    As to your question, open top without retention strap is fine for 1911 carry. In order for your gun to go off 3 things have to happen:

    1. Thumb safety must be taken off.
    2. Grip safety must be depressed and held.
    3. The trigger must be pulled.

    Those 3 things can't all happen with the gun holstered, without trying REAL hard to do it.
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    GM
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    Welcome to the forum

    I carry a 1911 or a BHP cocked and locked, and I do not use a retention strap rig. My holsters are quality open-top leather holsters; that is all I need.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    … To answer your question a step further, I would agree that a GOOD QUALITY holster is needed--expect to pay $100 or so. Also, you need a good quality belt, that is designed to carry the weight of a gun. I got mine from the Beltman, but there are other folks out there that make good quality gun belts--it makes a heck of a lot of difference in comfortably carrying. Go to the "Holster" thread on this site and study up ....
    I agree


    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    … Now, to your specific question about carrying in condition 1 (cocked and locked), try this experiment--take your 1911, unload it, cock and lock (hammer back, safety ON), and put it in your holster and wear it around the house, go jogging, bike riding, jump up and down--do anything you can, work on your car (although I wouldn't recommend taking it in the shower ) and do this for a couple of weeks. The point is to gain confidence that the two safeties (the thumb safety AND the grip safety) will function as they were designed.

    Welcome!!
    This is a very good advice! If you do it you will soon realize that carrying a 1911 cocked and locked is completely safe, and that you do not need a retention strap rig.
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    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    I have gone strapless for over 40 years and see no need to change at this point in my life.

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    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Only need for a retention strap with a properly function 1911 is to hold the gun in a holster that does not have good retention. Only time I have used one is when I have used a cheap one-size-fits-all owb holster while hunting. Better bet would to buy a better holster.

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    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    If you are referring to a holster with a thumb break type of retention, the strap will actually not run between the hammer and the firing pin, it will go over the hammer. In effect holding the pistol in the holster, not keeping the hammer from striking the firing pin. An open top holster will work just fine with a 1911 and a strap is not necessary. I have been carrying a 1911 concealed for 18 years and have never had a thumb safety disengage, (although it is more possible with an ambi-safety or extended safety, I only run single sided safeties on my guns). I carry my 1911's in Milt Sparks Summer Special II (preferred), Cross Breed Super Tuck, and High Noon Down Under Holsters.

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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    If you are referring to a holster with a thumb break type of retention, the strap will actually not run between the hammer and the firing pin, it will go over the hammer. In effect holding the pistol in the holster, not keeping the hammer from striking the firing pin. An open top holster will work just fine with a 1911 and a strap is not necessary. I have been carrying a 1911 concealed for 18 years and have never had a thumb safety disengage, (although it is more possible with an ambi-safety or extended safety, I only run single sided safeties on my guns). I carry my 1911's in Milt Sparks Summer Special II (preferred), Cross Breed Super Tuck, and High Noon Down Under Holsters.
    There are many holsters for the 1911 with the strap blocking the firing pin.

    Sent via Tapatalk...and still using real words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    If you are referring to a holster with a thumb break type of retention, the strap will actually not run between the hammer and the firing pin, it will go over the hammer. In effect holding the pistol in the holster, not keeping the hammer from striking the firing pin. An open top holster will work just fine with a 1911 and a strap is not necessary. I have been carrying a 1911 concealed for 18 years and have never had a thumb safety disengage, (although it is more possible with an ambi-safety or extended safety, I only run single sided safeties on my guns). I carry my 1911's in Milt Sparks Summer Special II (preferred), Cross Breed Super Tuck, and High Noon Down Under Holsters.
    There are many holsters for the 1911 with the strap blocking the firing pin.

    Sent via Tapatalk...and still using real words.
    JD is right, there are holsters for the 1911 with the strap blocking the firing pin. You can also contact a custom holster maker and ask him/her to make one for you.
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    Welcome to the forum. I have learned lots of solid information since joining. As to your question, I wear a Galco horizontal shoulder holster as often as possible and that has a "retention" strap that passes between the hammer and the firing pin. Otherwise, when I carry on my hip (IWB or OWB)I never have a retention strap of any kind. I'm left handed so I have ambi-safeties on my 1911. I'd rather have a single safety, but I have never had a problem carrying with an open top holster.

    Good luck.

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    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of your replies. I did not have personal concerns about a failure of all the safety's simultaneously failing. But when I started looking at holsters locally the three places I went all told me I needed the strap to be safe. When I asked why the answer was the same "look at the hammer hanging out there waiting to go off". I asked how that could happen without the grip safety being depressed and the trigger pulled. "It happens all the time, why do you think the police and military don't use these kind of guns any more." One person who claimed to be an "instructor" even told me 1911's will "detonate" if carried cocked and locked and bumped. I asked if maybe he meant discharge but he insisted detonate, I explained that detonate meant the whole damn gun exploded like a bomb. He said "yup hear about it all the time in this business". I started channeling Indigo from The Princess Bride "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means". He did offer to sell me a much better gun that was much safer and better quality, "the Glocks are right over here". I laughed and said hey that is the gun that the DEA guy shot himself in the leg with in the classroom when he was putting it i the holster. Unfortunately I only have 3 choices within an hours drive for gun shops, Gander Mountain, this place and a new place run part time by a local dentist.

    Anyway thanks for the confirmation, I have been shooting for 30 years but carrying will be a new experience.

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