Stop basing firearms preferences on what LE and Military choose. - Page 2

Stop basing firearms preferences on what LE and Military choose.

This is a discussion on Stop basing firearms preferences on what LE and Military choose. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by matthew03 I find it odd that people base their firearm preference on what LE administration's choose. We see it on forum's constantly, ...

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Thread: Stop basing firearms preferences on what LE and Military choose.

  1. #16
    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    I find it odd that people base their firearm preference on what LE administration's choose. We see it on forum's constantly, hear it in retort; such and such agency went with product X, so that's what I use. So and so changed caliber from X to Y so that is the best projectile.


    You have to remember police officers carry what is given to them, not necessarily what is the best or most preferred of the status quo. We have seen major departments choose one firearm over another simply because the manufacturer provided leather gear to go with it, took previously issued guns from a different company in on equal or near equal trade for new, offered extremely viable maintenance/replacement contracts, or simply traded out one gun for a new one for no cost, etc.

    Reference the US Military's adoption of the M9; it didn't actually outperform the competition, Beretta was simply allowed knowledge of the bid by Sig and under cut that bid slightly. Not to mention the fact that the contract allowed us to put intercontinental ballistic missiles in Italy during the Cold War.

    I choose my self defense firearms by what preferences and advantages they bring me, not on what fiscally benefited the LAPD or NYPD.
    I would agree with this to an extent. As for the "standard issue" weapons for PDs and military - yes. But there are a few organizations that buy a firearm because of its performance, not because they got a better deal on it. IE - special forces. I know for a fact they do not buy on a large contract. They go get what they want and negotiate on that one item. If Delta wants Sigs, they go to Sig and say, we want this many of this model, this many of that model, and here is what we want to pay for it.

    Now, that being said.. my irritation has always been people buying for the wrong purpose / reason. I have a RRA AR15 that I built up to MY specs. I didnt build it to SOPMOD spec because I dont need a SOPMOD AR. If I'm going to be kicking in the door of the new AQ leader's house, Uncle Sam will make available the tools necessary for me to complete my mission. Often times we get caught up in what the cool guys (SWAT, SFs, etc) carry or use and buy just based on that... and while that will undoubtedly be a great weapon, how often are YOU going to NEED a gun that survive a 300' drop when it comes loose from your jump rig, then gets run over by an M1A1 Abrams heavy tank while getting pushed 3ft into the sand and mud mix under the tank... but you picked it up, dusted it off and fired 300 rounds at al-Zawahiri without a single malfunction. Not gonna happen... so you probably don't need to spend 5 grand on that awsome LWRC M4 you've been eyeing. Yes, its cool, and I sometimes drool over it too, but you don't NEED that kind of weapon. If you have money to burn, feel free to donate it to the "OpJ needs a new car fund"!

    OpJ
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  2. #17
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I only carry what marine recon ranger team six carries.
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  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I only carry what marine recon ranger team six carries.
    You are a smart man, me too. Of course you're getting the affiliation discount aren't you? (It's on the back of the secret ID card you get when you join).

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I carry what my old department would have issued if they could afford it.

    When they decided to dump their Ruger revolvers and go with a semi auto, the P226 won or tied for first on everything except price. Instead of of buying the Sig they bowed to political pressure and went in on a package deal with some other agencies for Berettas made in Maryland. After several years and some locking block failures they tried a second model from Beretta. Before the department could close the deal to trade one for one on .40 cal models the county council decided that all weapons disposed of by the department must be melted down. That pushed the acquisition back a couple of years and Glock won based on price per unit.

    Most government agencies do not have luxury of buying what ever they want. The can only buy what their budget allows.
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  5. #20
    Member Array kjsl105's Avatar
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    This is a great topic!

    I agree in that too often an indivual will want a weapon based on hype or what they've seein in movies or magazines via gun porn. Some may be a bit more objective and read into their local LE and trust in their "judgement" (which is sometimes set heavily upon their budget). It's interesting, we were just discussing this on the radio the other day and went over this very topic. First, one should consider their local laws when considering a particular firearm. Then decide what the primary use of it will be (daily carry, night stand, etc.) Next choose the method in which they will be carrying the weapon. Then you start looking into calibers, single or double actions, etc. There are certainly situations that may dictitate one way or the other but ultimately the weapon and method of which you carry should be tailored to YOU. Wearing an FNP45 Tactical w/ light and red dot on a thigh rig is proably not a good choice if you are going to the store to buy milk....

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Lucky for me I don't have a clue what local agencies use and truly don't really care .... I carry what feels good on my hip or in my pocket.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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  7. #22
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    I carry what I want, not what someone else wants.
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    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexster View Post
    A short follow-up to my earlier post: I work for the PD of one of the largest local jurisdictions in the USA, and our pistol selection process is decidedly NOT low-bid. We have a list of approved pistols, all .40, all some form of double action. The high end, price-wise choices are the SIG P226 or P229, with either the DA/SA or DAK trigger systems. On the less expensive end are various models of Glock, S&W M&P, and XD. (If SAI does not resolve the roll pin breakage issue, the XD will be pulled from the list, soon.) We buy our own pistols, which is actually not at all uncommon in the USA. I heartily agree this, as I need not fear being compelled to carry a low-bid firearm, or that is an ill fit, though I do miss the days when we could carry an even wider variety.
    Having a list of approved manufacturers/models is greatly different than having the city government purchasing them. That may be the reason your dept. handles firearms that way.
    Last edited by TX-JB; September 15th, 2011 at 04:44 PM. Reason: typo
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  9. #24
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    My choice of firearms actually with what I actually used in the military and what I was trained with extensively. Makes perfect sense to me. The wannabees may still base their opinion of what they see on TV. The Good Lord knows I would never own another Beretta pistol, yet our armed forces chose this as standard equipment. Thought process don't exactly make sense at all times. Keeping an individual mind may be somewhat difficult for some......(that's why our government wants to decide what's best for us). My choice in Glock never stemmed from the law enforcement community nor what I've seen on TV. It came from my instinct for survival in any condition I could imagine.
    If you're accusing folks of basing their firearms preferences solely on what our military and police use, then you might be mistaken for the most part. That, or watching too many movies. Maybe you're pointing your finger at some sort of group you disdain for your own reasons? When tell others to "Stop"....use your most commanding voice, and maybe that will help. Thing is.....most folks only stop doing something when they want to.....not many listen as you can see evident to the condition of our country as of now. You have a right to rant about what you don't like just the same as a federal prisoner has aright to a free copy and read the Koran in his cell.
    To me, you're just filling up white space with text on this one.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    In the early days of space exploration, there was a saying stenciled on the gantry of the space vehicle. It was the last thing the astronauts saw as they entered their space capsule. It said: "As you enter this spacecraft, remember that it was built by the lowest bidder." Firearms selection by police and military administrators follow closely along those guidelines.
    What does bidding on government contracts have to do with the quality of the equipment? I see Glock, S&W, Sig, Beretta and even HK sometimes as department issued weapons. These are all quality manufacturers, so I don't think that the "lowest bid' is the number one factor in firearms selection for most LE agencies. Otherwise, there would be a lot more issued Ruger and Taurus weapons, which is certainly not the case. Of the quality manufacturers, one must have been the lowest bidder, but this doesn't necessarily have the quality implications that you are obviously making.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    ... Of the quality manufacturers, one must have been the lowest bidder, but this doesn't necessarily have the quality implications that you are obviously making.
    I began a retort, but decided adding to a flame war is too tiring.
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  12. #27
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    turn a bunch of monkeys loose in the jungle, and eventually they all will end up at the same banana tree.

    My EDC is a Glock 19 9mm which is issued by both the Chicago PD and the NY PD
    Own a Glock 32 .357 SIG, which is a compact version of the Glock 31 carried by the US Secret Service
    Own a Glock 23 .40SW which is standard issue of new FBI Agents.

    Am I copying these Law Enforcement Agencies by owning and carrying similar firearms?

    Nope.....monkeys all ended up at the same banana tree.
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  13. #28
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    I asked my granddaughter (now 14) when we were at a gun show... "why, do you pick out the particular guns you do ? ". She was showing me one's that she would like to get some day. She was picking some of the best.

    Her answer :
    1. It has to be black or blued so people can't see it in my hand at night. (where did that come from ? )
    2. It has to fit my hand well for a good grip and I can handle it well
    3. It has to be accurate
    4. It has to be one in a caliber I can handle the recoil and
    5. It has to be well made.... and not fail when I need it.

    I NEVER told her any of this. I told her, I don't know how you picked that all up, but you are a wise girl.

    I have to agree with her. And the girl knows what she likes and what she wants. This is a girl who is a great jazz and ballet dancer, who has the AR picked out that she wants for her 21st birthday.... I asked her if she wanted a pink one...and she very adamantly told me, the only good gun is BLACK. She also wants to get her CCL the moment she turns 21.
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  14. #29
    Ex Member Array vstromrider's Avatar
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    Matthew you venting at someone in particular... The testing that large police forces or military can afford , helps alot in knowing what works and what does not work. Use it as a reference.. or not Is up too you. I choose to use it...

  15. #30
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    I'd like to think that 80-85% of the PDs across the country carry Glocks because they found out that I carry one...I'm just sayin'...
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