Stop basing firearms preferences on what LE and Military choose. - Page 6

Stop basing firearms preferences on what LE and Military choose.

This is a discussion on Stop basing firearms preferences on what LE and Military choose. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by matthew03 Good info OD*, I'll have to do some web surfing on this and see if anything new has been put out ...

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Thread: Stop basing firearms preferences on what LE and Military choose.

  1. #76
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    Good info OD*, I'll have to do some web surfing on this and see if anything new has been put out there on the MEUSOC's quest for a new fighting handgun. I would really love to see Colt get back in there and eventually offer a custom/modernized 1911 to the general public based off of a Marine Corps gun.
    This is the Colt they are looking at;



    I've heard (take that for what it's worth ) an announcement of the winner might be made at the 2012 S.H.O.T. show.
    matthew03 and bmcgilvray like this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."


  2. #77
    Distinguished Member Array pirate's Avatar
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    I purchase firearms only after extensive research, first hand knowledge of the gun and first shooting an example if at all possible. I certainly listen to what others have to say but I always take everything I hear or read with a big does of salt. My gut feelings and 30+ years of experience with firearms trumps the fan boy and gun writer hyperbole.
    When I leave the home port:
    S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP

  3. #78
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    I bought a G19 as my first handgun when I moved to PA from CA. At the time I had no idea I'd develope the passion for shooting, hunting, and reloading that seemed to land on me after my first range trip. My Dad and I spent a lot of time together shooting. Then I moved to CA for 35 years and while my wife had some guns, I didn't have any and didn't shoot hers.

    Based on the advice of my mentor, I rented and tried about every model of gun I could find. In the end I liked the Glock 17 and 19 the best. So after thinking about it for a couple of weeks, with my new CCW permit in hand, I bought a handgun I thought would be good for home defense (it has a rail for a light), would be able to be carried, and held enough ammo that I wouldn't feel like I needed to stitch a pocket on my PJ's for a spare magazine.

    I didn't then, and still don't, know what the local LEO's use. My mentor has survived more than one gunfight. He wasn't hard over in favor of any particular gun, or cartridge, though there were a couple he was hard over against. All his carry guns are .40's but he didn't push that cartridge. In fact he said it really didn't matter. He just insisted that I like shooting it and that it have a rail for a light when it was used for home defense (he said it was my responsibility to be sure I had a legitimate target before I pulled the trigger so the light was a must). I mentioned the Glock 19 and he said it was an excellent choice.

    I haven't regretted it at all. I have since supplemented it with a Walther PPK/S which I bought to carry in the summer, a Glock 26, and a Ruger LCP. My wife has worked her way through several guns including an SP101, Ruger LCR, finally ending up with a S&W 686 with CT grip as her HD gun and a SIG P238 which replaced the LCR as her carry gun. I have 8 magazines for the G19. Two for the G26 but since it can use the G19 magazines in reality I have 10 for the G26.

    I completely agree with the thought that Civillian Concealed Carry is so different from what LEO's and the military do that rather different requirements apply (they have in common the need for a 100% reliable weapon). I think a lot of training aimed at professionals is too offense oriented for civillians and thus neither necessary for nor particularely useful to a civillian like myself or my wife.

    LEO's have to arrest the bad guy. I just have to make him/her decide they'd rather leave or stop than continue the attack on me. I just have to convince them they made a poor choice of victim - the LEO's have to capture them. That difference is huge. If I end up damaging them during the convincing process, so be it, but that isn't my goal, getting them to stop or leave, whatever that takes, is my goal.

    I'm looking for a good micro-9 to buy. I'd like it to be the size of the Kimber Solo with the Reliability of my Glocks and a trigger like my wife's P238. I'm hoping the new P938 is is, but haven't seen one yet even in a picture. If I don't find one soon (the next year) I'll buy myself my own P238 (my bride of 43 years is very possessive of hers). Not a gun the LEO's would be carrying, but it would work fine for me.

    Fitch
    ďThe whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.Ē by H. L. Mencken

  4. #79
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    I think your decision was well though out Fitch, good for you to seek out quality training for SD with your weapon of choice.

    The focus of the original post was to get people thinking about why they choose a firearm and if that choice was based off of blindly following someone else's criteria for choosing that particular model. I don't think you can really go wrong choosing any quality firearm. Like every other individual I have my personal preferences, but there isn't a gun out there that I can't pick up and after a short familiarization qualify with. My daily carry currently switches between a 1911 and a Sig P229, but I own striker fired guns, DAO as well as the aforementioned DA/SA and SA and can operate all with good results. That should be our goal as shooters, being able to overcome whatever system is at hand and shoot well from a pure functional standpoint, regardless of the platform.

  5. #80
    Ex Member Array gunther71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    Thanks Gunther71, that was my original point of the post, but it was muddled in the following war of who chose what and why. While I personally prefer the 1911 over the M9 as you do, I've also read articles where the M9 outperformed the 1911 in certain situations, (protective details). The tests all involved the 1911 being carried condition 3 while the Beretta was carried with a round chambered and safety off, (could have been on I can't be sure). Of course that makes for a pretty unfair comparison when you compromise the 1911's system like that.

    Where protective details using the M9 could draw and fire while sweeping the principal behind them with their weak side arm, the detail using 1911's whom were required to carry chamber empty, hammer down had to sweep the principal out of the line of fire first, then draw and chamber a round before engaging the threat.

    Did you get a classic Colt re-built and customized by the Marine Armor's or did you get one of the later Kimbers?
    If you saw both which did you prefer?
    Also, thanks for you service Marine.
    Matthew your welcome,
    I got out in 2005 and at the time we were still using the 1911meusoc
    As for your questions, as far as i remember they were beefed up springfields, heavy barrell, amberdextrious safety. I will look through my Iraq scrap books to see if i got any close ups of the pistol for you.
    as for your kimber question, I heard rumors but like i said i was out in feb 2005.

    We always had a shortage of them and they were always being sent to the armory in Quantico to get rebuilt every 18 months or so.
    We would have to qualify in a 6 week shooting course before we entered the house part(cqb) we had to do this school every 18 months, we averaged 1000 rounds of 45 a day and 1000 rounds 5.56 every day for 6 weeks.

    do the math, those pistols were tough but always in the shop

    but, if they went to a kimber i would concur

  6. #81
    Ex Member Array gunther71's Avatar
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    Matthew,

    You are so right with your opening post especially le.
    example, every time the local pd goes to a new piece it is the most sold piece.
    I remember when the local pd had glocks, shortly after every eligilble person at the range had a glock
    I remember when the local pd dropped the glock and went to the springfield xd9.............i bought the glock trade in
    I remember when the local pd dropped the springfield and went to the smith and wesson.............i bought the springfield trade in

    Last month there were 3 police officers shooting at the range..........smith and wessons
    One of them said to me "I do not see how you shoot so good with that pos glock!" i said"I got it from your agency" when are you guys going to drop the smith and wesson? hehe

    My point is............wait a while, research it and show em up with it.

  7. #82
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    gunther71, it's hard for PD's to turn down M&P's right now with Smith giving away pistols and new carry gear for free on the contingent service contract. Hell, I'd switch to whatever if a free pistol and leather was included, and then pay for maintenance after the fact. Glock has done so in the past as well as Sig, (not always free, but very good pricing or trade in credit on service guns). The gun companies know that giving away free guns to high profile PD's will eventually trickle down to smaller department purchases and influence the public as well. That's just good marketing.

  8. #83
    OD*
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    Matthew, here is the original "Request For Information" concerning the M45; https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&m...35f36&_cview=0

    The MEU(SOC) pistols used the standard 1911 barrel, with the standard link and barrel bushing. As can be seen in this picture of one of the Kimber ICQB pistols;



    and a standard USGI receiver with an over the counter purchased Springer slide.



    One of the MEU Pros,



    and a MEU(SOC) built on an original USGI receiver made by Ithaca in 1945.

    bmcgilvray likes this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  9. #84
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Thanks OD, Those guys know how to wear the finish off of a 1911. Did you see the round count gunther71 was putting on his MEUSOC gun? Incredible.

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