Defensive Carry banner

I hate it when someone plants a tiny seed of doubt

7K views 77 replies 35 participants last post by  Doodle 
#1 ·
Ok so a while back someone posted the need/want of a wonder pistol with a super snazzy red dot. Through conversation someone recommended a Glock from TSD Combat systems and then someone brought up Bowie tactical and their work with m&p's and glocks with similar gunsmithing/red dots.

Out of passing curiousity I emailed Bowie Tactical asking is there an after market slide for my XD 45C and can a simlar red dot sutup be mounted. His reply was a bit shocking..."no slides availible for the xd. it is a poor gun anyway for fighting alot of problems when you really start running it hard in real conditions. glock or M&P is way better choice." What the heck don't I know about my beloved XD? OK mind you he's obviously trying to sell me something. Seems to me like i remember a certain guns and ammo torture test where an xd 9 ran through 20000 rounds plus the revered glock torture test without a hickup and not only was the editor impressed with the platform, he took THAT gun and made it his nightstand gun. OK so I heard there where rare occasions of the striker retaining pin breaking so I upgraded that to the beefier powder river version, other than a wrap grip treatment it's stock and has never failed me.

Does anyone know anything I don't here?

Springfield Armory XD Sales Video and Torture test - YouTube
 
See less See more
#41 · (Edited by Moderator)
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/131046-xd-trigger-freeze.html

Interesting timing, what?:35:

OP, I'll add my assurances that David Bowie is NOT an "armchair commando", nor is he trying to promote any sales. He has more work than he can handle, because he's not just a custom gun builder. He trains others pretty much full time, as well.

He gave you a curt, yet informational reply. He probably replied via his phone when he was on a range somewhere. I've been dealing with the man for four years, and that's just the way he is in e-mails. Get him on the phone and he loosens up a bit; unless he's pressed for time.

Understand this... he DOESN'T CARE what you shoot. He DOESN'T CARE if he sells you a conversion. You asked a question, he gave a truthful reply. The information regarding the Serbo-Croat Special failures is out there if you care to expend a bit of effort looking for it. But as you have been told, you probably should not worry about it. You probably won't use it hard, and are not concerned about the grip safety immobilization "feature". Your gun will probably serve you well. Probably...

I was rather amused regarding the clueless comments you received about Bowie being a huckster, etc. Gee... just like GlockTalk, but more polite. Bowie does not offer ready-made parts. He will build your gun AFTER you and he have discussed it (and you have made a deposit). He does not work on XDs, and neither does the other major "producer" of fighting pistols with RDS (red dot sights)- TDI. FWIW, I seem to recall hearing that part of the problem with the Serbo-Croat Special (aside from its annoying tendency to quit working on occasion) was that the placement of parts in the slide was not conducive to inletting the RDS. This is most certainly the problem with HKs, and is why the two firms involved won't do them either.

But if you just want to TRY an RDS, then take the advice to buy a Burris FastFire and rear dovetail mount for same.

.
 
#42 ·
Well I can only speak from what mine have done. I have around 5k through my 9SC, never taken it further apart than a field strip, though I do blow it out with an air compressor after cleaning from time to time. I probably clean it every 3-400 rounds give or take, which for me takes a month or two unless we go make bangity bangity bang with friends. It has had precisely one malfunction caused by a squib reload in that time. It's about medium ugly from holster wear but goes bang every time I hit the bang switch. I feed it the cheapest, nastiest ammo I can find. It just goes and goes. YMMV. I have no hate for other makers, it just takes me a lot more concentration to run a Glock and I don't like the feel of the M&P; it shoots poorly for me. And Caleb at Gun Nuts put about 5k rounds through a XDM 5.25 in a month of hard use and it ran the entire time, such that he is using it for IDPA this year I believe.

I own a high dollar 1911 too...and it is a whole lot more finicky than my XD.

Good night, it always surprises me how emotional people get over their brand loyalty to guns. I agree with the sentiment that it's a tool and should be treated as such. I just choose the tool that fits my hand and gets the job done. You do the same and keep your eyes on the horizon.
 
#44 ·
I believe what you guys say about mr Bowie. Through all of my googlings about what could cause an XD to suddenly become jammed up, the only thing I see is the roll pin that acts as the striker retainer. (It's allready got the beefier aftermarket version) I have heard of XD's locking up on reassembly due to the guide rod not being properly centered...hmmm still confounds me. I'm continuing to do research but I'm just not finding much.
 
#48 ·
I own both Glocks and Springfield XD/XDM's and I love them both ! XD's are great, never had a problem with mine. They are a great design and are giving Glock a run for their money ! The only thing Glock does better is their finish, other than that they are about equal.
 
#50 ·
Springfield did the best job of anyone else of copying the Glock, and then complicating it with the grip safety and stupid cartoonish look. At least the Croations are happy. At least S&W's copy has some useful additions to it, although they have desecrated the hallow name of M&P by assigning it to that Glock copy.

Lets face it, the two most inovative and copied designs are the 1911 and Glock. They are what all the others are compared to. Theres a reason for that.
 
#63 · (Edited)
The only groups using the XD are the Croatian military and the Iraqi police (lol) along with a few American police departments. That tells me all I need to know in regards to the XD's status as a "combat pistol..." :image035:
 
#51 ·
Here is an email exchange as of recent between Mr. Bowie and myself. The "trying to sell me something" comment was rather stupid of me not knowing who I was talking about, so I wanted you all to know what kind of person I was dealing with. Agree with him or not, I definitly respect the guy and he still wants to help me. :)

My Email:

Hello again,

I'm still interested in a Glock or M&P 9mm as we dicussed but for the time being my XD45C is my primary carry. What you said about it having issues has me a little disconcerted, would you care to elaborate on issues you may have seen with them, please? I haven't had problems but I want to know what to look out for. The only issue I have ever heard of has been locking up after reassembly due to the guide rod not being properly centered, and the striker retaining roll pin breaking. I replaced the roll pin with the beefier 3 layer powder river version. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Respectfully,

Shannon

His reply:

Just so you know I am not trying to just sell something. That is not how I work. I tell the truth about guns peoples lives are too importent to pull punches about guns and quality. The XD has many problems not all exhibit them but too many to be a trusted item. Plus the grip safety also locks the slide so if you need to run the gun injured or with a screwed up grip for some other reason you may not be ablt to fire the gun and also not be able to clear a malfunction. I only know of one police dept. that issues the XD and it was because the chief had alot of contacts there and got them for very little. While the XD is a very fine shooting gun its quality leaves alot to be desired gun to gun. I used to run one myself but after having many extractor failures and seeing its grip safety issues I quit. I built the first custom XD's ever done way before Springer or anyone else and I still build them but there are better platforms out there. Just look around the country and see how many departments issue glocks or M&P's and then how many issue the XD or XDm.that is a clue. There is no reason for me to say to buy or work on one gun or the other from a "I am selling something standpoint" because I build all of them so that leaves only my years of teaching, SWAT and working on them to see hundreds of guns a year and see what runs well and what does not. Not one or two copies but alot of them. I can and will happily build your XD but I can't feel good about recommending a gun that I have seen to be a problem in hard use and realistic situations. I feel I owe that to the people I teach and do work for. I try to educate if some are put off by that I am sorry but A gun stor commando I am not.

My reply:

Looks like you saw or heard about my post on Defensive Carry...well I'll be honest I am an avid firearms enthuseast but I don't know all the names in the business and I was not familiar with you. Seems that little trying to "sell me something," comment was a bit fast and loose. Obviously you are highly regarded by people on that forum who I would trust with an honest answer. I didn't know all the facts about what you do so I sincerely apologize, that was very poor and impulsive choice of words to say the least. I am also planning on posting some of this email as a testiment to your customer service, if I may have your permision. FYI now I think I need an M&P but I am not sure about the red dot setup, do you feel it is a viable tool as a carry weapon? My thoughts are tending towards function and simplicity but I think I will keep you in mind for the pistol purchase, refinish in cerekote and perhaps some internal refinements. Now I just have to get back in the states from the 5 week trip in Norway and clear the budget with the department of aqusitions (the wife.) Thank you very much.

Humbly,

Shannon Dowdell

His reply:

Yes a customer forwarded it to me. I had never heard of the site. I do take very very seriuosly my recommendations. They come from the heart with no allegances to any company. I teach alot of people from beginning citizens to SWAT teams to military and take every thing I teach and tell them about tactics and tools very seriouse. I always tell customers somewhat light heartedly but still truthfully I will gladly take every dime you make but I will not mislead or lie to you to do it. If you wuld still like to work with me I will gladly do your gun to you needs. I do like the RDS to carry daily and on SWAT I am the one who started the idea many years ago as a fighting idea. All of my working guns carry a leupold deltapoint as does my wifes daily carry M&P9c.
Feel free to publish what you see as fair.
 
#52 ·
I was one who forwarded this thread to Mr. Bowie. Glad you were able to have some follow-up with him. When I met with him about doing my Glock 17, he quickly sold me on the idea of the Delta Point, in spite of my initial insistence on another, non-battery-powered sight.
 
#58 ·
I used to have a seed of doubt about the Glock. So, I put it through hell. I repeatedly submerged it in sea water and let air dry, buried it for days, fired it constantly without cleaning it, and just in generally totally abused it just to see if it could be trusted. I even through it up in the air as high as I could and let it land and bounce around on solid concrete.

And it was fun! And, it still works and cleaned up as good as new. My faith is complete. No more doubt.
 
#59 ·
Mr. Bowie appears to be the real deal. You probably never heard of him because he doesnt need to advertise. I have talked to friends who have taken his classes, and have never heard one negative word about him. The pictures of his pistol work obviously show his quality and attention to detail.

Another thing that makes me think they are the real deal, is JD. Limatunes, and Sixto have all attended courses there, and speak very highly of them. Ive been around enough people on internet forums to know smoke blowing and these three do not strike me as people who would throw good money after bad. I will attend TDI at somepoint when my finances allow, and will also hope to have the privilege of Mr. Bowie doing a build for me.

You falling on your sword and posting it here shows a lot of class. Good for you. Good luck with your build.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike1956
#60 ·
Appreciate it
 
#61 ·
I have three Bowie G19s, all with the full Signature Package. Two of them also have Trijicon RDS holographs inlet into the slide. He has my G30 as we speak, for the "full treatment" (including the RDS install).

Granted, we ARE talking about Glocks here, and you can only polish a turd so much. But Bowie's work is exemplary. I have examined perhaps a half-dozen different "versions" of a grip reduction, and Bowie's is head and shoulders above them all. That specifically includes the Robar offering. A pal has a G30 done by them, and the grip reduction part is quite disappointing.

Bowie understands what a carry pistol is all about, and offers mods accordingly. Take, for instance, the slide contouring. At first, I thought that was needless fluff, but it came with the "package", so what the heck... turns out it DOES make a slight difference in the gun's "printability".

And, he stands behind his work. My first one, which has the regular sights, began to chip and peel its re-finish (inside the slide) fairly soon. Bowie immediately told me to send the slide back and he would take care of it. But the flaking/peeling was all on the inside, and knowing that the tenifer was still there, I elected to live with it rather than go to the trouble of sending it back. That was four years and close to 10K rounds ago. It got worse, then stopped "spreading". The pistol has yet to malfunction in all of that. But every time I talk with David, he wants to know when I'm going to send that slide back so he can re-finish it.

.
 
#62 ·
."no slides availible for the xd.
This part's correct. I've never heard of an aftermarket slide for the XD.

Truth to say, I'm only aware of aftermarket slides for Glocks. And, of course, 1911s, which are practically "open source" hardware now anyway.

it is a poor gun anyway for fighting alot of problems when you really start running it hard in real conditions. glock or M&P is way better choice."
This part, ehhh.
 
#65 ·
LOL if I believed everything I read or heard on the internet I would not have purchased some of the guns I have now !!! Instead of a *seed* there are *plantations* of doubt for both Taurus and Keltec, yet I still purchased some of their products and have been very happy with them. God Bless :smile:
 
#66 ·
Even if it looks like a cross between a Star Trek phaser and a squirt gun, has a loaded chamber indicator that looks like the guts are coming out, and a palm safety that locks up the slide so you have to lose your shooting grip to operate it, at least they supply you with the cheapest holster and mag carrier on the market, which is fitting to carry it in, and call it a "package deal".
 
#71 ·
All in all it's about being proficient with your weapon system of choice. I don't worry about those like TSIWRX with 10K+ through their gun, it's the "1Krds over 6 years" crowd I'm worried about

I whole heartedly agree there. I will have to check out that school. I am due for a little training, and it sounds like my kind of thing.
 
#75 ·
Well I'll tell ya...I'm glad I asked the question because this thread has been a bit eye opening. I love this forum...full of people in the know...I thought I was kinda in the know...maybe not.

Edit...a special thanks to you all.
 
#78 ·
I'll be honest I am not quite sure what your saying here but...thanks?
 
#77 ·
I have done 2 TDI courses this year and they were great (Snubbie and Handgun 1-3). I plan to do more next year - Advanced Concealed Carry and the Combat Medic classes. David Bowie is the real deal and one can learn a lot from him. He is a no BS kind of guy and will tell you what he believes it the best way/tool to do something. I have seen his smithing work and have shot, briefly, one of his guns with the RDS on it. When I can spare the funds, my G30 will probably go to the Bowie spa, but that may have to wait for a bit.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top