small carry conceal handguns. 9mm or .380 , Why you carry one over the other ? - Page 7

small carry conceal handguns. 9mm or .380 , Why you carry one over the other ?

This is a discussion on small carry conceal handguns. 9mm or .380 , Why you carry one over the other ? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by AZJD1968 Thank you sir! I am one that believes that .380 is an inadequate caliber for self defense and I post that ...

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Thread: small carry conceal handguns. 9mm or .380 , Why you carry one over the other ?

  1. #91
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    Thank you sir! I am one that believes that .380 is an inadequate caliber for self defense and I post that fact here often. You just proved to me that I havn't been wasting my time! I will admit though that I think ICBM's are a bit much. :-)
    LOL I may be old, but I'm not so set in my ways that I can't change. You listen and learn. I still like the little .380's to shoot. I'm just not sold on them for a defensive weapon if there is an alternative available. They are still better than nothing. I've read about people successfully defending themselves with .22's, .25', .32's and everything else, but I'm going with the biggest caliber that I can effectively carry.
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  2. #92
    New Member Array vincent2sum's Avatar
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    Anyone have any experience with the Sig Sauer P250 and the exchange kits? Specifically a preference for the 9mm or 40 and changing to the sub compact and back? It's my understanding they do not have a .45 exchange for the sub compact yet. Any input is appreciated.
    thanks.
    "Oh don't apologize....I'm far too egotistical to ever be offended by anything people say....

  3. #93
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsCrasston View Post
    Force does equal mass x acceleration, but the ft/sec figures you used were not acceleration. They are velocity. Acceleration is the rate of change in velocity. You actually calculated the momentum of the bullet.
    Sorry, I must have slept through that lecture, and Lord knows the text book was worthless.

  4. #94
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincent2sum View Post
    Anyone have any experience with the Sig Sauer P250 and the exchange kits? Specifically a preference for the 9mm or 40 and changing to the sub compact and back? It's my understanding they do not have a .45 exchange for the sub compact yet. Any input is appreciated.
    thanks.
    Sorry, I don't have enough experience with the P250 to comment, but I'm sure someone that does will be along shortly. If not, you could try posting a new thread in the "Defensive Carry Firearms" or "General Discussion" section.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
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  5. #95
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsCrasston View Post
    Force does equal mass x acceleration, but the ft/sec figures you used were not acceleration. They are velocity. Acceleration is the rate of change in velocity. You actually calculated the momentum of the bullet.
    Brian,

    Glad you pointed this out - you beat me to it. In any case, "force" as a measure of the performance of a bullet is meaningless. An icepick applies a lot more force to the target than a .44 Mag - just over a much smaller area, and a shorter distance. The .44 (or a .357, or a .380) has the obvious edge in energy.

    Regards,
    Jim

  6. #96
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejib View Post
    Sorry, I must have slept through that lecture, and Lord knows the text book was worthless.
    I was impressed by your ability to recall ANYthing you supposedly learned.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

  7. #97
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by EsCrasston View Post
    Force does equal mass x acceleration, but the ft/sec figures you used were not acceleration. They are velocity. Acceleration is the rate of change in velocity. You actually calculated the momentum of the bullet.
    LOL.... But wouldn't the calculation of the momentum of the various bullets also be acceptable as it applies to this discussion?
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
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  8. #98
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    LOL.... But wouldn't the calculation of the momentum of the various bullets also be acceptable as it applies to this discussion?
    ROFLMAO.... Not really. If you accept momentum as the measure of effectiveness, then Nolan Ryan's fastball was nearly twice as effective as a .45 ACP. Granted, I would not want to be hit by Nolan's fastball, but I'd take it over a .45 any day.

    Regards,
    Jim
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  9. #99
    Member Array EsCrasston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    LOL.... But wouldn't the calculation of the momentum of the various bullets also be acceptable as it applies to this discussion?
    Unless the one on the receiving end of the bullet was within millimeters of the end of the barrel, no. The fastest point of a bullets trajectory is the moment it leaves the barrel, and it consistently slows down until it reaches it's target. A larger bullet will slow down more rapidly than a smaller bullet. Between 0-300 yards, a .380 round will slow down 350 ft/sec whereas a .45 will slow down over 600 ft/sec (not trying to further the argument of .380 vs whatever else, and those figures were taken from a ammo company's test reports). There are far too many variables in velocity, momentum, force, etc. to include them effectively in this discussion unless its just the basic statistics that every bullet manufacturer puts out.
    ”The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose.”
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    While the .38sp and 9mm are generally held to be the minimum caliber for a lethal defense, that does presume a worst-case scenario. Statistically, if you have to use your firearm in a defense situation, just pulling it out will solve 99 percent of your problems. Gary Kleck's stats actually put the number at something like 99.8 percent.

    This is why you don't open your newspaper and see a story about a concealed weapon permit holder killing a bad guy every day. It happens, but not very often.

    If you do pull your weapon and fire a round, most people will run away, dive under tables, hide behind cars, etc. Up to this point, the .380 will work as well as anything else. Really, it's only in the extremely rare event that a person is trying to kill you and is ignoring the bullets and walking straight into your gunfire that you want a bigger caliber. The "penetration" and "one-shot stop" arguments are more appropriate for law enforcement personnel.
    i believe you have a point here.
    the only problem comes when you encounter a BIG CRAZY person.....

  11. #101
    Member Array EsCrasston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTPower View Post
    i believe you have a point here.
    the only problem comes when you encounter a BIG CRAZY person.....
    At that point, whether you are carrying a .45 or throwing rocks, you just keep whingin' them at the BIG CRAZY person until he stops moving! ;) If the bullets don't work, throw the darn gun at his face!
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  12. #102
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejib View Post
    Force = Mass X Acceleration
    .380: 85 grain X 854 ft/sec = 72,590 whatever the force units are here.
    .38sp: 125 grain X 1140 ft/sec = 142,500 whatever the force units are here.
    9mm: 147 gr X 1134 ft/sec = 166,690 whatever the force units are here.
    .40: 165 grain X 1154 ft/sec= 190,410 whatever the force units are here.
    .45: 200 grain X 936 ft/sec = 187,200 whatever the force units are here.
    .22LR: 40 grain X 988 ft/sec= 39,520 force units
    What I want to know is where you found a 147 gr. 9mm bullet that travels at 1,134 fps! The Federal HST 147 gr. +P has an average velocity of 1,050 fps out of a 4.25" barrel, so that bullet is movin!'

    Then, why choose a 200 gr. .45 ACP bullet?

    Just curious.
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTPower View Post
    i believe you have a point here.
    the only problem comes when you encounter a BIG CRAZY person.....
    That's why I don't carry anything smaller than 9mm. I would never go smaller. But for the reasons mentioned, I don't get all emotional and strident about caliber. Like Woody Allen said in Casino Royale: "My doctor says that bullets shouldn't enter my body at any time."
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  14. #104
    Member Array EsCrasston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    What I want to know is where you found a 147 gr. 9mm bullet that travels at 1,134 fps! The Federal HST 147 gr. +P has an average velocity of 1,050 fps out of a 4.25" barrel, so that bullet is movin!'

    Then, why choose a 200 gr. .45 ACP bullet?

    Just curious.
    From Buffalo Bore's website: 9mm Luger +P+ Pistol and Handgun Ammo - (+P+) 147 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,175 fps/M.E. 451 ft. lbs.)
    ”The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose.”
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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    I agree with this statement, but not for the reason the writer intended.

    The .380 is likely to be as effective as any other round in the sub-caliber class. Like the .22 or .25, it can and does kill people, but per the quote above, the object of carrying a defensive weapon is not to stack up bodies like so much cord wood. The purpose is to stop threats and save your life.

    While the .38sp and 9mm are generally held to be the minimum caliber for a lethal defense, that does presume a worst-case scenario. Statistically, if you have to use your firearm in a defense situation, just pulling it out will solve 99 percent of your problems. Gary Kleck's stats actually put the number at something like 99.8 percent.

    This is why you don't open your newspaper and see a story about a concealed weapon permit holder killing a bad guy every day. It happens, but not very often.

    If you do pull your weapon and fire a round, most people will run away, dive under tables, hide behind cars, etc. Up to this point, the .380 will work as well as anything else. Really, it's only in the extremely rare event that a person is trying to kill you and is ignoring the bullets and walking straight into your gunfire that you want a bigger caliber. The "penetration" and "one-shot stop" arguments are more appropriate for law enforcement personnel.
    why dont you carry a cap gun. They 'look' real enough and you probably (99.85%) wont have to actually use it anyway.

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