Defensive Carry Rotation... - Page 4

Defensive Carry Rotation...

This is a discussion on Defensive Carry Rotation... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Harryball Some people train extensively with all of there weapon systems. While some can do this, others might find fault in it. ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array pangloss9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Some people train extensively with all of there weapon systems. While some can do this, others might find fault in it. Tacman has the ability to train extensively with his weapons, I see nothing wrong with that. I choose my rotation based on manual of arms.
    And I applaud extensive training. However, my point is that if you are training with gun X, you are not training with gun Y. Most people shoot one type of gun at least slightly better than others. Aside from instances when concealment is of utmost importance and your really need to scale down to a small gun, the only argument for having a carry rotation is an emotional rather than logical one: gun X makes me feel all warm and fuzzy today, so I will leave gun Y in the safe even though gun Y is a superior defensive weapon and I shoot it better.


  2. #47
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    LOL well Pangloss9 you can maintain all you want but in my line of work if you are not at your best with whatever you are carrying you do not last very long either in the job or in life.

    I am not trying to get in a who has the bigger barrel length conversation with you. I am dictated by US and host nation laws by what firearms I can carry and use so therefore I must maintain the highest level I can with whatever that is. I own 1911's, 238's, SIG's, M&P's and Revolvers and I have the ability to mix and match as I need to for a given function. Yes it is great if you carry a Glock carry the compact with it or instead of if you have to, I simply don't have to.

    It is the same way with a rifle whether it is M4 or AK I shoot them both equally without a problem. My kit is set up the same way for both and even though the operating controls are different it is not an issue but that is me others may have a problem with the same system but I have been doing this a long, long time.

    But as I stated to each his own.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  3. #48
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    Sorry you were posting the same time I was.

    I don't carry different firearms to feel warm and fuzzy I carry a gun because it is a tool I need to survive. When home I have my work/carry guns and my playtime guns and very seldom do they cross paths.
    As I have stated a firearm is merely a tool that I carry and have carried for 30 plus years. I carry different tools for different things and different tasks. There is no one gun that is perfect for every task nor will I limit myself to being skilled with just one system.

    Some would feel undergunned or out of their element with anything but a Glock, I would not feel undergunned or out of my element with a Makarov if that is what I had to carry. I would however know the limitations of the weapon I am carrying and stay within those limits unless forced to do otherwise.

    It is all about choices and I choose to carry different weapon systems to suit my needs at that time. If others choose not to great. As the saying goes "A man has got to know his limitations" and I guess my limitations are different than yours.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss9 View Post
    I maintain that you are not at your highest level of competency with any of them. If you chose a single platform and devoted all of your practice time to it, you'd improve. For all I know you're an awesome shot with all of your potential carry guns, but you could become super awesome with one of them. If you like 1911s, why not just buy a Springfield EMP for general carry and a Sig238 or a Colt mustang for times when you really have to carry a small gun. In reality you are not choosing different tools for different jobs. You are carrying a gun because you think you might have to shoot some one who is trying to hurt or kill you.
    You're wasting your time. Some people get it, some don't.
    I collect ammo, not guns.

  5. #50
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    You are absolutely right Texag some don't get it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    All my sidearms are point and shoot, no thumb safeties, DAO.

    Pocket carry is the only carry method that I can pull off no matter the situation or mode of dress - so that is what I do, all the time. If I am anticipating a higher threat level, then I will add a Glock (via Smartcarry) to my PM9 and LCP (yes, that means 3 guns).

    Why? Once upon a time, there was a plainclothes officer, who carried his sidearm in different holsters, in different positions on his body, depending on...whatever his reason was. One day, he had to draw his sidearm to save his life when confronted by an armed suspect. He went to draw and...whoops...gun not there. He tried again...whoops...gun not there either. He had to pat himself down before he found his sidearm. If it wasn't for his partner, he likely would have been dead.

    Things happen so fast, that you will NOT have time to think. You must automatically KNOW where your sidearm is, and how it works. This muscle memory is gained through thousands of like repetitions. It is degraded by variations. And stress will do funny things to you, at the worst possible time.

    The analogy about driving cars with a manual vs automatic transmission is invalid - you have time to think and adjust in that case. In self defense, you usually do not.

    Y'all can do whatever you wish - I will carry the same type of sidearm, with the same (or very similar) manual of arms, in the same location, in the same holster...every single day.

    Self defense is not the place for indulging your taste for various kinds of guns. If you like variety in guns, fine - use them as range toys. For defensive purposes, you will be much better served mastering the ONE platform that you choose to master.

    As always, JMHO. YMMV. BNI. (Batteries Not Included).
    pangloss9 likes this.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  7. #52
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I switch because it's a luxury I indulge myself with. I am a man with 47 pair of shoes, 11 watches, and 4 different wedding bands. I am very particular about certain things, and love to have a wide variety of quality items to enjoy.

    I work hard, long hours in a high risk job, so I enjoy allowing myself those certain special things, especially handguns.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  8. #53
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    This is an odd thread.

    Anyone concerned with self-defense and handguns needs to be comfortable with his choice. That's certain. There is no way however that someone should presume to speak for others and their abilities or their choices. Some folks may feel comfortable to carry different handguns for nothing more than "fun and frolic," simply because they have the different handguns available and can actually shoot well. In toting the different handguns they could be amassing a useful familiarity with each one. Some folks don't "stomp for the clutch" when they slide behind the wheel of a vehicle with an automatic transmission, even if they don't frequently drive it.

    One is not required to fumble.

    Speaking for myself only but I've never had trouble switching from one vehicle to another or one firearm to another. When ducks rocket out of a pocket in the back of my favorite hunting slough I don't fumble for the safety on the shotgun. I remember to rack the slide on the Winchester Model 12 for repeat shots and don't tug on the fore arm in an attempt to pump the Remington Model 11 for repeat shots. I've always carry both indiscriminately along with other styles of shotguns and all are effective on ducks within range.

    In the deer woods I've long carried an "antique/classic rifle of the season," trying out a different old rifle and handload each season along side of using typical bolt action sporter rifles. The safeties, levers, slides, bolts, single shots, or auto-loader mechanisms along with open sights or scopes just aren't confusing. Shots are taken deliberately and deer are brought to bag.

    There are plenty of folks here on the Forum who are better with a handgun than I am but I'm more than good enough to positively affect the outcome of a self-defense situation. And, I don't have to be equally proficient with all the handguns I might choose to carry in order to bring a self-defense situation to a successful conclusion with any of them. It's ok to recognize that one is quite proficient with any of his carry choices.

    A man's got to know his limitations: A man's got to know his limitations (HD) - YouTube

    It's hard to say whether those who exhibit the smug superiority of championing the use of only one handgun are masking a crisis of confidence or else are taking themselves entirely too seriously and over-thinking the issue.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  9. #54
    Member Array pangloss9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    You're wasting your time. Some people get it, some don't.
    You're right. I give up. I will save my energy for the next thread where some one wants to add a single action revolver to his carry gun rotation. Those are always great threads too.

  10. #55
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    Just sayin'
    lowercase and Old School like this.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    This is an odd thread.

    Anyone concerned with self-defense and handguns needs to be comfortable with his choice. That's certain. There is no way however that someone should presume to speak for others and their abilities or their choices. Some folks may feel comfortable to carry different handguns for nothing more than "fun and frolic," simply because they have the different handguns available and can actually shoot well. In toting the different handguns they could be amassing a useful familiarity with each one. Some folks don't "stomp for the clutch" when they slide behind the wheel of a vehicle with an automatic transmission, even if they don't frequently drive it.

    One is not required to fumble.

    Speaking for myself only but I've never had trouble switching from one vehicle to another or one firearm to another. When ducks rocket out of a pocket in the back of my favorite hunting slough I don't fumble for the safety on the shotgun. I remember to rack the slide on the Winchester Model 12 for repeat shots and don't tug on the fore arm in an attempt to pump the Remington Model 11 for repeat shots. I've always carry both indiscriminately along with other styles of shotguns and all are effective on ducks within range.

    In the deer woods I've long carried an "antique/classic rifle of the season," trying out a different old rifle and handload each season along side of using typical bolt action sporter rifles. The safeties, levers, slides, bolts, single shots, or auto-loader mechanisms along with open sights or scopes just aren't confusing. Shots are taken deliberately and deer are brought to bag.

    There are plenty of folks here on the Forum who are better with a handgun than I am but I'm more than good enough to positively affect the outcome of a self-defense situation. And, I don't have to be equally proficient with all the handguns I might choose to carry in order to bring a self-defense situation to a successful conclusion with any of them. It's ok to recognize that one is quite proficient with any of his carry choices.

    A man's got to know his limitations: A man's got to know his limitations (HD) - YouTube

    It's hard to say whether those who exhibit the smug superiority of championing the use of only one handgun are masking a crisis of confidence or else are taking themselves entirely too seriously and over-thinking the issue.
    That's great that you've had such success hunting with a variety of firearms.

    Funny things happen when you're getting punched in the mouth by someone much bigger than you. Removing things that might cause you to mess up in such a situation is a good thing, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss9 View Post
    You're right. I give up. I will save my energy for the next thread where some one wants to add a single action revolver to his carry gun rotation. Those are always great threads too.
    Those threads usually coincide with me deciding to spend my online time somewhere else for a spell.
    I collect ammo, not guns.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    ^^^^ For once, I agree with you. I think you should spend more time somewhere else^^^^^^
    tacman605 likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss9 View Post
    And I applaud extensive training. However, my point is that if you are training with gun X, you are not training with gun Y. Most people shoot one type of gun at least slightly better than others. Aside from instances when concealment is of utmost importance and your really need to scale down to a small gun, the only argument for having a carry rotation is an emotional rather than logical one: gun X makes me feel all warm and fuzzy today, so I will leave gun Y in the safe even though gun Y is a superior defensive weapon and I shoot it better.
    Pangloss Im saying you are wrong, I believe most people should do exactly what you are saying. However, there are operators out there that are forced to do things, you and I are not. Tacman and Glockman are in the business, believe it or not there lives depend on knowing another firearm platform and being dam good with it. Regular joes might not have the luxury to train with all these systems, if they dont then I would recommend they dont carry them. I guess the bottom line is, some can and will change with what there context demands. Again, thats fine with me.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss9 View Post
    And I applaud extensive training. However, my point is that if you are training with gun X, you are not training with gun Y. Most people shoot one type of gun at least slightly better than others. Aside from instances when concealment is of utmost importance and your really need to scale down to a small gun, the only argument for having a carry rotation is an emotional rather than logical one: gun X makes me feel all warm and fuzzy today, so I will leave gun Y in the safe even though gun Y is a superior defensive weapon and I shoot it better.
    Your argument sounds like an emotional one rather than a logical one.

  15. #60
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    Guess I'm just a creature of habit. I'm a scuba diver and have been for over 40 years. I have been putting my rig together exactly the same way every time - regardless of the gear I use. I have several regs, BC's etc. But they go together in the same sequence every time. Kinda like muscle memory. I have one set of gear I use most of the time, but depending upon the situation, I may vary the reg or BC. But it's never as comfortable as my normal rig. Same for my choice in carry. I have several choices. However, the vast majority of times I carry the same gun in the same holster at the same spot and go through the same ritual every time I put my "rig" together. Again, muscle memory. While I hope to never need to use the gun in a self defense situation, I do practice nearly every day. Draw, dry fire, etc. Then once every couple of weeks, run some rounds down range. I also practice with my other choices, but not as much as my primary gun. There is a lot to be said about familiarity. Rather than breeding contempt, I believe in my case, familiarity breeds confidence. But, as with most things, it's a personal choice and may not be appropriate for everyone.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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