The issue with my new Sig P226R SRT - problem identified and fixed - video post 34

This is a discussion on The issue with my new Sig P226R SRT - problem identified and fixed - video post 34 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have now done what I said I didn't want to do - disassemble the gun. I took everything down except the mag release and ...

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Thread: The issue with my new Sig P226R SRT - problem identified and fixed - video post 34

  1. #31
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    I have now done what I said I didn't want to do - disassemble the gun. I took everything down except the mag release and the hammer spring. I did not see anything that would cause anything to hang on anything. However, I did break all edges, and put it all back together with oil on the slight possibility that grease may be causing a sticking or sluggish effect.

    None of that did any good. I'm beginning to think that the trigger bar spring may be dragging on the tight clam shell E2 grip. Tomorrow I'll screw on some regular grips and see if that makes a difference.
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  3. #32
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    Tangle,

    I never would have thought about changing the grips. Mine came with those billet aluminum grips and I never had a need to change them because they are great. The are already thin like the E3 grips.
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  4. #33
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    Oooooo Hawk, you got the deluxe model grips! I bet they look great!

    The E2, clamp on monster (monster because they are hard to get on and off - even with the tool) also have a deep cut at the back of the grip where the web of the thumb and index finger contact the grip. I think it gives about an 1/8" shorter trigger reach.

    Oh, I forgot this pic in my previous post:

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  5. #34
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    This will identify the problem and how it happens - even pretty good about how the Sig P series DA/SA triggers work and reset.

    Part of the video is not as sharp as usual. It was challenging to get enough lighting and stay in tight with the camera and operate the gun at the same time. That's the advantage of having four hands - don't I wish!

    Anyway, here's the problem and the problem resolved although I don't show how to fix the problem - I know this is going to sound snotty/snobby, but it's a little too touchy and too much could cause another problem:

    Oh, there isn't a new Sig called the P2226; I just got to rolling good with the two's and couldn't stop in time

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  6. #35
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    Basically, are you saying you had to make a slight "modification" , that if an individual is not too mechanically savvy with SIG pistols (really knows what they are doing), they should make Sig fix this issue under warranty?

    By the way Tangle, I tested my P226 Elite Stainless the other night and could not get it to long reset, so I guess my SRT is good to go for now. My other Sig P series are all either DAK or the older DA/SA trigger systems (with the longer reset).

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZGlock13 View Post
    Basically, are you saying you had to make a slight "modification" , that if an individual is not too mechanically savvy with SIG pistols (really knows what they are doing), they should make Sig fix this issue under warranty?
    LOL, there was no way I could sneak that by as a little innocent, non-judgemental remark was there? But yeah, some things are pretty forgiving, but because of all the interactions of parts, this one seems a little touchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by AZGlock13 View Post
    ...By the way Tangle, I tested my P226 Elite Stainless the other night and could not get it to long reset, so I guess my SRT is good to go for now. My other Sig P series are all either DAK or the older DA/SA trigger systems (with the longer reset).
    I'm glad to hear you tested it, and glad to hear you don't have the problem. It seems some do; some don't.

    The scary version is, how far are you away from the problem? Can it happen with your setup? To be sure, pull the grip (right side) or grip (clam shell), remove the slide, and do the test I did in the video. I.e. pull the trigger and hold it to the rear, push the trigger bar way down while pressing down on the safety lever, and cock the hammer. Then slowly release the trigger to see if you get a longer reset than you should.
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  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Tangle you did an excellent job on the demo video, diagnosing, and explaining the issue. Too bad Sig wouldn't step up and service the SRT to begin with. I think you should send Sig CS a link. Again excellent work sir.

  9. #38
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    Nice work Tangle...great video...send it to Sig.
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  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    I just came across an interesting comment made by Bruce Grey of Grey Guns on the SRT set up. It seems the system has some drawbacks in it's design which creates a more gritty trigger pull than the standard trigger pull and does not allow the firing pin safety to re-ingage between shots. I was thinking of having one put in my P229 SCT, but even more than the long Sig reset bugs me, I hate the short trigger and need to get that changed out to the good old classic Sig trigger post haste.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    I just came across an interesting comment made by Bruce Grey of Grey Guns on the SRT set up. It seems the system has some drawbacks in it's design which creates a more gritty trigger pull than the standard trigger pull and does not allow the firing pin safety to re-ingage between shots. I was thinking of having one put in my P229 SCT, but even more than the long Sig reset bugs me, I hate the short trigger and need to get that changed out to the good old classic Sig trigger post haste.
    You guys must be experiencing a different trigger then I. My SRT is not gritty at all and I have never had an issue. I would never dream of going back to a standard Sig trigger. Oh and Bruce Gray will fix your trigger right up for 425.00 for his "Enhanced Competition Package" LOL........
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  12. #41
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    Thanks to all for the kind words. I guess I'll see if I can send the link to Sig as you guys suggested - it is a Sig problem, period.

    Matthew, I did want to make a couple of comments about Bruce's comments. First, Bruce is my hero - a fine man, master shooter and gunsmith. I had not read his comments, so I'm glad you posted them.

    I have three SRTs. I have not noticed the 'gritty' that Bruce mentioned. I don't know if it was just the sample(s) he tried or what, but I've noticed how smooth my SRTs are. I'm not saying they're any smoother than standard triggers, but they aren't any less smooth either. There is some drag but it's not gritty; kinda puzzled by his comment about that. Bruce may notice things that most of us wouldn't however. OTOH, for a SD gun, the SRT trigger is smoother than most.

    There's a bit more to it about the firing pin block than what was indicated by the comments about the firing pin block. It's complicated but it has to be I suppose. And the following is is to all, just FWIW kinda FYI.

    I'll compare the SRT to the non-SRT in each condition the gun can be in.

    Let's say we've just fired the gun - the SRT first. The trigger will be fully to the rear, the hammer will be cocked and the safety lever will be fully raised so the firing pin will be unblocked.

    Now lets look at the non-SRT in the same condition: The trigger fully to the rear, the hammer cocked and the safety lever will be in the low condition so the firing pin will be blocked

    If some how the hammer could fall, e.g. a sear failure, the SRT gun could fire where the non-SRT gun could not. That's one condition; now lets look at the reset condition.

    Everything is the same as before, but the trigger is released to the reset position and held at that point. This one is complicated. The SRT has no take-up, i.e. it is fully engaged with the sear. The non-SRT has take-up, i.e. it has to be pulled rearward past the point where it reset to contact the sear. In the SRT gun, the safety lever will be raised just enough to marginally disengage the firing pin, so the gun could fire if the hammer fell some how. OTOH, the non-SRT gun, AT THE TRIGGER RESET POSITION would block the firing pin. However, and this is BIG, if you take the slack out of the trigger so that it is in contact with the sear, the firing pin will be in the in released state.

    Under pressure, I'm not sure we would/could hold our finger perfectly still at the non-SRT reset position. The further it moves rearward the closer the condition moves to an unblocked firing pin. Then again, does it matter? The only reason it would matter is if the sears failed so catastrophically that the hammer would drop with enough force to fire the gun. On top of that, if we have removed the slack either consciously or subconsciously, we no longer have firing pin blocked.

    So the question here is there a safety issue with the SRT that doesn't exist in the non-SRT? Well the non-SRT is safer with regard to a sear failure with the trigger all the way to the rear or at the reset point. But IF, after you fire a shot, you release the trigger to reset and immediately take up the slack, the non-SRT and the SRT are in the very same condition.

    As for a drop, the trigger would be released and the firing pin would be blocked on either.

    So why wouldn't the non-SRT always be better? Well you give up the short reset to gain some safety margin only in some transient conditions.
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  13. #42
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    Interesting stuff Tangle. I don't have an SRT in my P229, in fact of the 4 Sigs I've owned, all been standard triggers except my SCT which has the standard reset, but short trigger, (don't like it). I would like to rectify the long reset, but I don't want to take any chances with reliability as all of my Sigs have run 100%. Not that the SRT will induce failures, but I don't know enough about it and have read of other issues in the past.

    Also, I didn't quote Bruce's post verbatim because it was posted on a different forum so it could be that I mis-spoke when I referenced his view's. I know that you frequent that board Tangle, so you'll probably come across it eventually. Again, excellent job on the video, explanation of the design and fix, engineers are cool like that and I enjoyed this thread; very informative.

  14. #43
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    Thanks Matthew.

    Speaking of triggers, I'm not sure what I like. I replaced the short trigger in my P229R SRT with a standard trigger (standard reach, not reset) and thought I liked that better. Lately, I've been shooting my P226 Elite Enhanced with the short trigger and now I think I like it better.

    Then there's that enhanced grip thing. I wasn't so impressed with it on my P229, but when I put an enhanced grip on my P226 and added a short trigger, I liked that. Then I replaced the enhanced grip with a set of CTs and I highly recommend the short trigger with the CTs.

    I think part of my problem is I think too much. E.g. I "think" going to a SRT requires more of a commitment than one might imagine. To take advantage of the short reset, one has to train to it. Just putting an SRT in a Sig won't be any faster than a standard trigger if you release the SRT to the same point you've trained to release the standard trigger. One has to overcome the standard trigger training and adapt to the short reset. And, then, I'm not sure one's speed will go up or that it can. It could be recoil recovery takes longer than trigger reset.

    On top of all that, there's another commitment - you're pretty much locked in to the SRT reset. If one does adapt to the shorter reset and wanted to carry say an Hk P30L, there's a real good possibility he'll short stroke the P30L because it has a much longer reset than the SRT. Ask me how I know that!

    If it's true that we revert to training under stress, and we've trained to a short reset, under stress we're going to release to a short reset if that's what we've trained for. So if we carry a different gun for a change and have to use it.......

    And it is interesting that in all the years of guns and shooting, other than the 1911, we have rarely heard anything about trigger reset, not many people even know what it is. Now all of a sudden you'd think we couldn't even shoot a gun that doesn't have a short reset trigger.
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  15. #44
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    This has been a fascinating thread (and videos), Tangle, even for non-Sig shooter.
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    This has been a fascinating thread (and videos), Tangle, even for non-Sig shooter.
    You know we could do a similar thread about short trigger resets on Glocks. Now see what you've done! I just might do that. Of course I'd have to go shoot my Glocks to be thorough. Hmmm, the range was still open when I left it just a little while ago.
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