The issue with my new Sig P226R SRT - problem identified and fixed - video post 34

This is a discussion on The issue with my new Sig P226R SRT - problem identified and fixed - video post 34 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I bought a new Sig P226R SRT Enhanced Elite and so far I've put 400 rounds through it. Last night I was doing some dry ...

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Thread: The issue with my new Sig P226R SRT - problem identified and fixed - video post 34

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    The issue with my new Sig P226R SRT - problem identified and fixed - video post 34

    I bought a new Sig P226R SRT Enhanced Elite and so far I've put 400 rounds through it.

    Last night I was doing some dry firing and on the second dry fire, the trigger reset long??? I tried it again and it reset short, again - long, the next few - long reset. How could that be?

    So I pull the slide and drop some Lucas Gun Oil in the hammer, sear, safety lever, etc. area. I tried it again and again and again and all short resets just like it's supposed to.

    This was not due to oil starvation; if anything I use a bit too much oil. Although during the 400 rounds, I did maintain the barrel, slide, frame, etc. I did not clean the areas where I dropped the oil, but I have oiled that area regularly. Remember, I only have 400 rounds through the gun. I have never seen the problem once with live fire.

    It could be dirt had built up and the oil I added relieved the problem, or it could be a problem showing up under less than squeaky clean conditions. This could mean that if oil gets sticky due to dirt or cold that this can happen.

    I have to say, if this is normal for a Sig SRT after 400 rounds, I think we have a problem. I know people that shoot thousands of rounds through their Glocks without cleaning them - not saying that's right or wrong or good or bad that they do that, but that's what they do and they don't have probs after a mere 400 rounds.

    Anybody know anything about this?

    I'll be off-line (Christmas activities) until tomorrow night, but would much appreciate your thoughts or any info regarding this.

    I haven't contacted Sig yet.

    Thanks,
    Tangle
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    That's kind of why I stay away from things with " trick " mechanisms, such as the DAK or LDA systems. I really don't know much about them, but it seems there is alot going on in there to make it do what it does.
    A good ole straight simple, and proven mechanism is seemingly more bullet proof.
    But, like I said, I really don't know much about them, just my thinking.
    Hope it's resolved to your satisfaction.
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    Just a little friendly advice.........make sure you have snap caps in that Sig when you dry fire. Limited dry-firing without probably won't do any harm, but I've read over on the Sig forum that several folks have broken springs while dry-firing their pistols. I love my Sigs......have a P220 Carry (45acp) and P226 (9mm).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I bought a new Sig P226R SRT Enhanced Elite and so far I've put 400 rounds through it.

    Last night I was doing some dry firing and on the second dry fire, the trigger reset long??? I tried it again and it reset short, again - long, the next few - long reset. How could that be?

    So I pull the slide and drop some Lucas Gun Oil in the hammer, sear, safety lever, etc. area. I tried it again and again and again and all short resets just like it's supposed to.

    This was not due to oil starvation; if anything I use a bit too much oil. Although during the 400 rounds, I did maintain the barrel, slide, frame, etc. I did not clean the areas where I dropped the oil, but I have oiled that area regularly. Remember, I only have 400 rounds through the gun. I have never seen the problem once with live fire.

    It could be dirt had built up and the oil I added relieved the problem, or it could be a problem showing up under less than squeaky clean conditions. This could mean that if oil gets sticky due to dirt or cold that this can happen.

    I have to say, if this is normal for a Sig SRT after 400 rounds, I think we have a problem. I know people that shoot thousands of rounds through their Glocks without cleaning them - not saying that's right or wrong or good or bad that they do that, but that's what they do and they don't have probs after a mere 400 rounds.

    Anybody know anything about this?

    I'll be off-line (Christmas activities) until tomorrow night, but would much appreciate your thoughts or any info regarding this.

    I haven't contacted Sig yet.

    Thanks,
    Tangle
    Tangle,

    I have not had an issue ever with my Dark Elite. I simply love the SRT trigger. I tried to google any issues on the web about it as well, and there is not really any issues from what I can see. Could you have short stroked it?

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    That's kind of why I stay away from things with " trick " mechanisms, such as the DAK or LDA systems. I really don't know much about them, but it seems there is alot going on in there to make it do what it does.
    A good ole straight simple, and proven mechanism is seemingly more bullet proof.
    But, like I said, I really don't know much about them, just my thinking.
    Hope it's resolved to your satisfaction.
    Nothing "trick" about an SRT trigger.
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    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Yeeks. I have two of the darn things. One on my 229 E2, and one on my 226 Stainless Elite. I have yet to shoot the 226, but have several hundred rounds through the 229. No troubles yet. Those triggers are sweet. I hope you get yours ironed out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Tangle,

    I have not had an issue ever with my Dark Elite. I simply love the SRT trigger. I tried to google any issues on the web about it as well, and there is not really any issues from what I can see. Could you have short stroked it?
    Good thought, but not a chance. A guy emailed me in response to my post in the SigForum and said there have been some issues with the Sig triggers including the SRT. I got the strong impression these were more isolated cases, or exceptions rather than the norm.

    One interesting thing is, my P226R SRT Enhanced Elite is factory stock and I'm seeing this on it. I dropped an SRT kit in my P226R and have yet to see this problem in dry fire.


    Quote Originally Posted by multistage View Post
    Yeeks. I have two of the darn things. One on my 229 E2, and one on my 226 Stainless Elite. I have yet to shoot the 226, but have several hundred rounds through the 229. No troubles yet. Those triggers are sweet. I hope you get yours ironed out.
    Keep in mind that I have fired 400 rounds though mine without a single issue of any kind. I only saw this in dry fire.

    While I haven't had a problem in 400 rounds of live fire, it still concerns me that I have seen this in dry fire. How could it do it in dry fire and have no potential to in live fire?

    I discussed this with Sig and they don't consider it a problem unless it occurs in live fire. I don't find that very reassuring.

    I think what bothers me about this is if it can happen in dry fire, what's keeping it from happening in live fire? A thin operational margin perhaps???

    All the linkages are the same, the only thing that changes is the dynamics. Kinda like the recoil is jarring the action enough to make it work - scary.
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    I'm curious - do you mean that you dropped the hammer, then cycled the slide to simulate friring and it reset long? Or is it resetting to a different position during DA dry fire?
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    400 rounds through the gun just tests to see if a SIG is assembled with no more than 3 missing parts and 1 part incorrectly installed.

    It's bupkas to it for use, and their should be NO issues, especially not with a brand new gun (like yours is at 400).

    First thing I'd do, get several hundred rounds of NATO 9mm & some targets.

    Clean the gun, lube to spec (Use white lithium grease, it stays put and doesn't run) then go to the range.

    50 rounds at 3 yards, single action, looking for 1 hole groups.

    50 rounds at 3 yards, DA/SA, 2 inch circle.

    50 rounds DA/SA, 3x5 index card at 5 yards from low ready.

    50 rounds, DA only (Decock the gun every shot), headshots on B-27 at 7 yd from low ready.

    50 rounds DA/SA headshots on B-27 at 7 yd from low ready.

    Record all problems with each drill, keep track of how many rounds fired and number your mags so you know which works better than the others.

    See if the issue show up with dryfire only for some reason.

    USE NATO BALL OR OTHER HOT AMMO for this drill.

    This is an evaluation of the gun, you want to eliminate variables. That means milspec ball, or other high quality ammo. If you want to run black hills ball or something like that, good. If you have a stash of Federal C9BPLE (115 grain +p+), run it if you want to, or any hotter defensive load.

    The point is you want ammo that will definitely not short stroke anything.

    (You can run the drills at 25 rounds per drill too, but the point is to get more data. Data is critical and testing firearms is not for the cheap if you want to know if they really run.

    Oh, and run it all in one range session. You want/need data at "Clean" and at "Dirty")

    Record problems and then contact SIG with more data.

    Right now...you don't really know what is going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    I'm curious - do you mean that you dropped the hammer, then cycled the slide to simulate friring and it reset long? Or is it resetting to a different position during DA dry fire?
    I rack the slide - fully. I pull the trigger to the rear to drop the hammer and hold it there. I rack the slide fully to, as you stated, simulate firing, and then I start releasing the trigger until it resets. It was not resetting short like it should. I can't say it was doing a full DA reset, but it sure wasn't doing a short reset.
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    Very odd.
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    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Very odd.
    Isn't it????
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    400 rounds through the gun just tests to see if a SIG is assembled with no more than 3 missing parts and 1 part incorrectly installed.
    LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    ...First thing I'd do, get several hundred rounds of NATO 9mm & some targets...
    I've ordered that stuff by the thousands! Love it! I just can't find it right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    ...Clean the gun, lube to spec (Use white lithium grease, it stays put and doesn't run) then go to the range.
    Yep, right up to the lithium grease part. I can't stand grease although I have used Gun Butter grease. Most manufacturers recommend oil, and to oil sparingly. I think it was in one of my owners manuals that said grease should not be used.

    I have to agree, I've seen too much stuff stuck in grease and it stays put too. I pretty much use Lucas Gun Oil exclusively. It was design for use in machine guns that get very hot.

    Oil can run, but that in no way means the gun isn't fully protected. It is the excess oil we see running.

    Now this sounds like a fun way to eval a gun!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    ...50 rounds at 3 yards, single action, looking for 1 hole groups.

    50 rounds at 3 yards, DA/SA, 2 inch circle.

    50 rounds DA/SA, 3x5 index card at 5 yards from low ready.

    50 rounds, DA only (Decock the gun every shot), headshots on B-27 at 7 yd from low ready.

    50 rounds DA/SA headshots on B-27 at 7 yd from low ready.
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    ...USE NATO BALL OR OTHER HOT AMMO for this drill.

    This is an evaluation of the gun, you want to eliminate variables. That means milspec ball, or other high quality ammo. If you want to run black hills ball or something like that, good. If you have a stash of Federal C9BPLE (115 grain +p+), run it if you want to, or any hotter defensive load.

    The point is you want ammo that will definitely not short stroke anything.
    The gun cycling isn't short stroking even on mild range ammo. The Sig user manual strongly recommends SAAMI spec'd ammo.

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    ...Oh, and run it all in one range session. You want/need data at "Clean" and at "Dirty")
    Yeah, I guess, but with the first 400 rounds, I haven't had the first problem, not even a hint of a problem in live fire.

    The only time I've seen the trigger issue is simulating firing in dry fire. As an engineer, this really bothers me. I'd consider it a very poor design if the short reset is relying on the jarring effect of the slide to operate. I mean linkage is linkage. It either depends on positive engagement which forces it to work at all speeds (at least in the case of a gun) or the linkage is inertially coupled such that it operates at full speed but not and hand cycling speeds. The latter would be very, very disappointing to me.

    I guess I should mention this. The SRT kit that I dropped in a different P226R does just fine dry firing. So does my P229R SRT (factory). It's just this one factory stock P226 that's doing this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    That's kind of why I stay away from things with " trick " mechanisms, such as the DAK or LDA systems. I really don't know much about them, but it seems there is alot going on in there to make it do what it does.
    A good ole straight simple, and proven mechanism is seemingly more bullet proof.
    But, like I said, I really don't know much about them, just my thinking.
    Hope it's resolved to your satisfaction.
    I agree with staying away from special trigger types. I like the regular trigger, simple, less to break or go wrong.

    I would also strongly suggest any dry firing be done ONLY with snap caps in the gun. I know Glock says their guns are safe to dry fire but I don't dry fire my Glocks without a snap cap in them either. Better safe than sorry.
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    Why do we think the SRT is more complicated or has more to go wrong? It could be that the SRT parts are more reliable than the standard. What I'm seeing may be no more than an out of spec part that slipped out of the factory.

    The part count is exactly the same, they're just redesigned a bit. There are have been some issues with the standard triggers also, but they are very rare, just as problems with the SRT triggers are rare.
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    How about if it's something as simple as slide velocity.

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