You know which DA/SA gun has the best SA trigger- I bet you'll be surprised...

You know which DA/SA gun has the best SA trigger- I bet you'll be surprised...

This is a discussion on You know which DA/SA gun has the best SA trigger- I bet you'll be surprised... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The Beretta PX4. Surprised? No more than I was, but a bit of clarification is in order. That clarification is for breaking the shot only. ...

Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,809

    You know which DA/SA gun has the best SA trigger- I bet you'll be surprised...

    The Beretta PX4.

    Surprised? No more than I was, but a bit of clarification is in order. That clarification is for breaking the shot only. The story changes when we add trigger take up and reset. But for pure SA shot break, I find the PX4 to be the best, and I should express my parameters to claim that so here goes.

    I was checking out several guns by dry firing, and picked up my PX4, cocked the hammer and gradually pressed the trigger. WOW! I couldn't even feel the trigger move! Could that be? So I do it again and again, and again, and it's the same every time!

    I shoot a lot - shooting and climbing trees (well climbing a rope in a tree) is about all I do - and I shoot a lot as you can see from my signature(s). Because I run my standard eval drill every time I shoot, I have an opportunity to repeatedly notice trigger actions. I feel creep, take up, stacking, smoothness, etc. I'm not saying everyone else doesn't sense the same thing, all I'm saying is that I really pay attention to it and the eval drill I run at least once a week, helps me notice the trigger characteristics. So here are the parameters, actually more THE parameter I stake my claim on.

    I suppose we've all heard the expression - "Breaks like a glass rod." It's used in every article about a 1911 to describe the trigger break. I can't help but wonder how many of these writers have actually felt a glass rod break? But the point they are trying to make is more appropriately described as a pressure break and even more technically, engineeringly correct is a force break. The concept is this: imagine a trigger that has absolutely no movement and as you press harder on the trigger and thereby apply more pressure - more correctly, force, you reach a force level where the trigger breaks with no motion at all. A good 1911 trigger comes pretty close to that. While it does move ever so slightly, it's really hard to sense any movement at all. But you do feel the force building up on the trigger and then it breaks. But don't all triggers work that way? No, not at all!!!!

    Some do, most don't. I wish there was some way to do this without offending someone with regard to their favorite gun, but Glocks, Hks, XDs standard Sigs, etc. have creepy triggers. That's not a big deal, but it's true. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't change anything. When you pull the SA trigger on these guns, you can feel the sears dragging against each other. It may be smooth as silk, but you can still feel it. Here's an example:

    I've been shooting my P226 SRT and my Hk P30L A LOT lately. I can feel the difference in the triggers. The Hk has significantly longer drag to the break than the Sig. My Sig P226R Elite Enhanced SRT has considerably longer drag than my Sig P229R E2 SRT.

    By drag, I'm really meaning the distance involved from the time the drag starts until the hammer falls. So this is not about pull weight, but about the distance.

    An M&P with the Apex DCAEK has a pretty good break, but it doesn't compare to a 1911 and the PX4. At least my not my PX4, it's as good as any of my 1911s or any 1911 I've ever shot. In fact, the pull weight also feels slightly lighter than a lot of 1911s. But back to the PX4 and drag distance.

    I can feel NO drag in the SA trigger of my PX4. To me, the break is phenomenal; I'm just not used to a DA/SA trigger breaking that cleanly. It does have rivals and I bet you'll be surprised by one of them as well.

    One is my Sig P229R E2 - it's right there with the PX4. I'd still pick the PX4 trigger as better. If I ranked the PX4 as 100, the P229 E2 would be 99. The other one? Are you sitting down?

    The FH FNX9! I'd have to put it about 98 - it has just a hint of 'softness' instead of that clean, crisp, 'force' break.

    Remember that 'force' break I described earlier? That's what the PX4 (well, at least my PX4 and it's completely stock) feels like. You just keep pulling and suddenly the hammer drops. There's no sensation of travel whatsoever.

    I just observed this today in dry fire. I hope to run my eval drill with it soon and see what I think. 'Feel' really jumps out at me during that drill, so we'll see. Funny I've never noticed this before, but I wasn't running my eval drills when I was shooting the PX4. Should be interesting.

    And, keep in mind, this may just be my PX4. I can't speak for any other. A guy had one at the range Saturday and offered to let me shoot it, but I didn't. I will never pass up an opportunity to shoot any gun again!
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Quantico/ F'burg, VA
    Posts
    1,402
    I've always liked Beretta triggers but the best I've ever shot was the SA trigger on the HK USP Elite. Oh Mamma! Hk's target trigger is sweet.

  3. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,809
    Granted there may be some target triggers that would be hard to beat. But I don't know how you top no drag/perceived motion of the trigger, except lighter weight, especially in a stock SD gun.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ky.
    Posts
    1,890
    Sure seems to me that any trigger has to move. Some more than others but never the less it has to move.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,019
    Nice write up. Interestingly, the only trigger system I do not care for, is the DA/SA setup. That transition from long/heavy first shot to short/light subsequent shots really bugs me. I'm no trigger snob...I shoot anything - as long as the trigger pull is the same for every shot. When I qualified with my M9, I manually cocked the hammer for the first shot every time - it just bugged me!
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  6. #6
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,809
    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Sure seems to me that any trigger has to move. Some more than others but never the less it has to move.
    You're right exactly, all triggers, except possibly electronic triggers have to move. I think it's a matter of how and when they move that we feel. E.g. that 'glass rod' break we so often read about, means the force builds up to the break point and then it moves all at once.

    Other triggers begin moving proportionally to the force and we feel that motion in the form of drag until the hammer/striker falls. Both trigger types move, but when one moves it breaks the shot and it's very difficult to feel the drag. Others 'creep' or drag up to the break point and we can feel that.

    I suppose a fair comparison would be a Glock trigger and a 1911 trigger.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array C hawk Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    W. Washington
    Posts
    3,552
    Tangle,

    You are really going with your own opinion on this one. This would be like me saying that my car is the best driving car because the brakes are amazing. Well how about acceleration, handling, comfort? Having shot a PX4 the trigger did not amaze me and for darn sure the reset was nothing to write home about compared to Glocks, 1911's and my Sig SRT. I still have not seen any polymer touch a 1911 with regards to the overall trigger.
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  8. #8
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,809
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Nice write up. Interestingly, the only trigger system I do not care for, is the DA/SA setup. That transition from long/heavy first shot to short/light subsequent shots really bugs me. I'm no trigger snob...I shoot anything - as long as the trigger pull is the same for every shot. When I qualified with my M9, I manually cocked the hammer for the first shot every time - it just bugged me!
    Well, I guess I've kinda 'moved' a little on that, but I'm like you, I shoot anything. It wasn't that long ago I was talking about how great DAK and P250 triggers are.

    I think what keeps going around in my mind is I've been told by two elite shooters that DA/SA is the way to go. One, is Ernst Langdon - he won a ton of matches with a DA/SA that culminated in Ernst using a Sig DA/SA to beat Rob Leatham and his highly custom 1911 in a head-to-head competition.

    The other is Bruce Gray, he shot the Bianchi cup with a DA/SA Sig and after years of not competing came in in the top 10. I think he actually carries a PX4 DA/SA. I emailed him about that and he said it'd be easier to cover on the phone; I just haven't called him yet - but tomorrow ain't over yet!

    While I'm not Bruce or Ernst, I do shoot a lot and do well with a DA so I guess it really doesn't bother me that much, and I like the guns the DA/SAs come on.

    And, another thing you hit on something that's pertinent is the fact that if one needs/wants to, he has the option of cocking the hammer which results in about the best trigger pull one could ask for.

    BTW, completely off subject, but I know how you feel about them - I love shooting with a laser. They're faster and more accurate and solves about any eye problem, within reason, one might have, works well as a night sight, and green lasers (what I use) covers just about all lighting conditions inside or out out to about 10 yards. They can do much better than that if not in bright sunlight. Unlike the red dots and holo sights, the laser truly is a single focus plane.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  9. #9
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,809
    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Tangle,

    You are really going with your own opinion on this one. This would be like me saying that my car is the best driving car because the brakes are amazing. Well how about acceleration, handling, comfort? Having shot a PX4 the trigger did not amaze me and for darn sure the reset was nothing to write home about compared to Glocks, 1911's and my Sig SRT. I still have not seen any polymer touch a 1911 with regards to the overall trigger.
    Actually it would be like me testing several cars and asking do you know which one accelerates the fastest - only one aspect of the overall performance of the car.

    I specified in the OP:
    "...That clarification is for breaking the shot only. The story changes when we add trigger take up and reset. But for pure SA shot break, I find the PX4 to be the best..."

    I made no claim of identifying the best all round trigger, only one specific aspect of a SA trigger in stock DA/SA guns.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  10. #10
    Member Array CaptSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington /San Juan's
    Posts
    350
    Do you incorporate movement into your fireing drills, and do you see good effect from using your lazer during movement...?

  11. #11
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,809
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptSmith View Post
    Do you incorporate movement into your fireing drills, and do you see good effect from using your lazer during movement...?
    Well, we're drifting a bit here, but I'll at least give a response - that is a good question.

    I'm just learning the laser. Unfortunately movement, except for very limited movement, for the vast majority of us, myself included, can't do a lot of movement on the ranges available to us. But many ranges do allow rapid fire and I've been very impressed with the laser for that.

    But, based lot's of training (without a laser) including a lot of FOF (Simunitions) what I've seen so far, I would think the laser could be very advantageous. We would be more aware where our muzzle is indexed, how steady we're holding our gun while moving and where it's pointing, and precisely if we're on target or not. Since the laser circumvents having the gun near eye level, a number of options open up that we wouldn't have without a laser.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

best da sa pistol
,

best da sa pistols

,

best da/sa pistol

,
best da/sa pistols
,

best da/sa trigger

,
best sa/da pistol
,
best sa/da pistols
,
best sa/da trigger
,
da/sa guns
,

da/sa pistols

,
da/sa trigger
,
what pistol has the best trigger
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors