Kahr PM9: awful slide/frame sticking. Why??

Kahr PM9: awful slide/frame sticking. Why??

This is a discussion on Kahr PM9: awful slide/frame sticking. Why?? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Problem: My new PM9 has a smooth slide when it's normally operating. However, about four times out of five, I cannot do a field strip ...

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Thread: Kahr PM9: awful slide/frame sticking. Why??

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Kahr PM9: awful slide/frame sticking. Why??

    Problem: My new PM9 has a smooth slide when it's normally operating. However, about four times out of five, I cannot do a field strip and get the slide to remove. It just jams up. (Yes, I know about the trigger-release step.)

    As well, during reassembly the slide refuses to slide all the way back at least half the time. Haven't spoken with Kahr, yet. I had figured to send about 500 rds through, first, then reevaluate. I've got about half that through the gun, at this point.

    It's the strangest thing I've seen. Complete hang-up on the slide's manual cycling, and flat refusal to remove during disassembly. When it's shooting, it's just fine. But take it apart ...

    Did an initial strip, cleaning and lube. Shot some lower-power FMJ to get things loose (~50rds). Then, opened up with 100 JHP, then another 100 JHP +P. Stripped it after every 30-40 rounds or so. Hung up most every time. After the range session, I simply sat there doing field strips, getting "stuck" about 80% of the time.

    Question: Any suggestions, on this slide/frame rail problem? What to look for; what to ensure doesn't exist (ie, "burrs" in the rails); possible missing/bent/broken part; something else?
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 27th, 2006 at 11:40 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    First thing I'd look for is a Burr on the Slide or other metal components...
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  3. #3
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    Just recently (this week) I have had some issues with my pm9 slide sticking. I have had trouble field stripping it. It seems when I get it just right it come apart, but other times it just feels wedged. Upon inspection I can't find any reason for it. The other problem is when the magazine is loaded to capacity, the slide wants to stick back like its locked when you try to load the chamber. The gun has never FTF (600 rounds), but it still makes me feel a little uneasy about the quality.
    I also own a Glock26 (wifes gun) and I am strongly considering trading the pm9. The Kahr is such a great carry size for my attire, but I'm losing confidence in it.

    J.S.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimmak View Post
    First thing I'd look for is a Burr on the Slide or other metal components...
    Yup. Burr/gouging does exist ... though not in the metal. In the plastic of the frame's rails.

    The first and only range session was last Saturday, during which time I put 250 rounds through it, including: 100 rounds of Remington/UMC FMJ 115gr, and 150 rounds of Federal HydraShok 124gr +P.

    I just took some photos and sent an email to the Service group. In the next day or so, I should get a reply and we'll go from there.

    CLICK HERE for a link to two photos showing some of the gouging in the frame's rails.

    Failure of the slide to remove, reinstall, "rack" ... this was evident from new-in-the-box condition in advance of any rounds having been fired. Should have field stripped it at the shop as I purchased it. I have done this with every other pistol I've purchased, but this was the first I picked up without doing that validation step. Dumb.

    During a field strip, the PM9 requires flicking the trigger when racking the slide back, to allow the slide to come smoothly off the rails. Works smoothly, when it works. Jams up nearly every time, though.

    We'll see what the tech dept. has to say. Can't imagine they'll like the gouging, thin curls of plastic being removed from the front/right slide on the frame, and inability of the slide to operate reliably.

    I'm all for keeping the PM9 as a carry piece, but not this one if it's going to exhibit these problems. Yeah, am losing confidence in this one, given these early troubles. We'll see what the tech dept. has to say and whether they can find a "solution" that results in a PM9 lasting a thousand rounds or two without visible damage/wear.

    There aren't very many other pistols with the size/features of the PM9. I'm also vetting a KelTec P3AT 380ACP, now, as well. Distinct differences in apparent quality of parts, general operation. But, where the rubber meets the road, it's got to operation 100% to be carried. Whichever one hits 1000 rounds reliably gets the nod as the backup carry piece.

    Who knows: I might well end up going Glock for the micro/backup piece, but I despise the relative size, weight, feel of the smallest Glocks. They have never felt good in my hands, and I've never shot well with them. Otherwise, they are nice pistols.

    Last edited by ccw9mm; November 9th, 2006 at 07:00 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    If the pistol is new, send it back to the factory. Now I have come to expect some cosmetic imperfections, but on a pistol of that quality you should not be having such problems. In my opinion you worked to hard to be able to purchase the pistol to be having problems. Send it back, so they can do some work on it. I am not in favor of having a smith do the work if I bought the pistol new and the problems obviously are from the factory. Just my 2cents.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    That is the problem with the PM model gun's. They tend to do this, I have seen pictures of some pretty bad frames doing this.

    This is why I don't own a PM9/40 if anything I would get an MK series of a Kahr for a little BUG. I like them but they are known for this problem sometimes. It will get worse as well so take BL's advice and send it back now.


    Ti
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    New Member Array nontypical's Avatar
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    The reason I own a Bersa 380 instead of a Kahr is the amount of complaints I read about Kahrs like this. Very few Bersa'a have problems (that Iv'e read about in several forums) and they're at least half the cost.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Contacted Dottie @ Kahr Tech Support.

    Based on the two photos I sent and my description, the reply so far is: "There is really nothing wrong with your pistol. What you are experiencing is very normal with polymer pistols." I've got another range session this weekend. I'll be plinking with 100 rounds at a time, followed by a field-strip to monitor the chewing on the frame's rails. Clearly documenting the eroding condition will prove the clincher, I think. It's a problem ... and Kahr will see this soon. No worries.

    Yes, the PM9 looks to be a great combination of size, weight, features. Ran a few hot +P's through @ ~410 ft-lbs and was amazed by how controllable it was for a pocket pistol. Definitely has potential, once I iron out the frame/slide alignment issues. What I don't want to do is go to the steel version, given the weight penalties, but that may well be the avenue if the polymer frame cannot pass muster. The more issues, which will result in all the more rounds during my process to validate reliability, which will speed the demise of any pistol on the "fringe". We'll see.

    If it doesn't cut the mustard, then I will be looking at alternatives. Bersa what/which, might I ask??

    Thanks, all.

    - Michael
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Member Array Beprepared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Contacted Dottie @ Kahr Tech Support.

    Based on the two photos I sent and my description, the reply so far is: "There is really nothing wrong with your pistol. What you are experiencing is very normal with polymer pistols."
    OMG, it truly torx me to hear this. I have the same problem with my PM9 and was wondering what I should do about it... and how Kahr would handle it. This type of response is not what I wanted to hear.

    I think that I mentioned this in another thread sometime back but on my PM9, after firing a round, the slide moves forward and stops about 1/8" from battery. I have to push it closed. It did not do this when it was right out of the box but maybe after 200 rds. or so. I thought that perhaps I had under-lubed it but that does not seem to be the problem. I am fairly certain that it is due to these rough areas on the rails.

  10. #10
    Member Array Dave James's Avatar
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    Mine took just shy of 800 rounds before it was 100% good to go, but looking at the linked photos, shows wear and tear mine never had,,I would say that has to go back to Khar asap, looks to me as if the mould mite be out of wack causing the frame to torque a little in the making process.

    I still love to carry my Khars but the more I see of the poly versions the more I have decided to stick with the all steel ones

  11. #11
    New Member Array hopetonvrshoot's Avatar
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    Wow, how timely. I just shot the CW 40 and the new 45ACP thinking I wanted to retire my Model 27 Glock because of it's size. After shooting both I was left unimpressed and seriously wondering if they were anything more than large Ravens. The CW 40 went bang every time but was pretty inaccurate even for a new gun at 8 yards. The new 45 ACP jammed twice. One round unbelieveably ended up lodged back in the magazine after firing. I love the concept but if your life depends on it...will it perform? How much brake-in does a Kahr need?

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    Member Array don527's Avatar
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    what was the outcome of the original posters frame rail issue?

    I havent seen a PM9 close up but I would have thought the rail is metal.
    Is the entire frame rail polymer on the PM9?

    I've rented a MK9 and am totally impressed and will probably go with that. I thought about the polymers but have read spotty reviews. Hope they have addressed the issues.

    Don

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don527 View Post
    what was the outcome of the original posters frame rail issue?
    No resolution, yet.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    None yet? Has Kahr had it this long or ya didn't sent it in yet?

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Haven't spoken with Kahr, yet. I had figured to send about 500 rds through, first, then reevaluate. I've got about half that through the gun, at this point.
    I would speak with Kahr, and tell them that in a gun I intend for carrying for self defense, it is utterly unacceptable that I should have to "break it in" with over 500 rounds before I can bet my life on it.

    In fact, I have to wonder why anyone would ever use any gun that did not work 100% correctly right from round one, as anything but a range/plinking gun. I surely would not carry a gun that needed such a break-in period as a defensive weapon.

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