Glock once stood for uber eliability; I don't think it does presently - UPDATE in OP - Page 11

Glock once stood for uber eliability; I don't think it does presently - UPDATE in OP

This is a discussion on Glock once stood for uber eliability; I don't think it does presently - UPDATE in OP within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Tangle My numbers are what it cost me to get my M&P equipped with the DCEAK and RAM kit, and I installed ...

Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 7891011121314 LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 208
Like Tree54Likes

Thread: Glock once stood for uber eliability; I don't think it does presently - UPDATE in OP

  1. #151
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    7,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    My numbers are what it cost me to get my M&P equipped with the DCEAK and RAM kit, and I installed it myself. And my M&P has plastic sights and the front white insert has fallen out which seems to be a common problem with M&Ps. .
    Mine did the same dang thing... I went to clean it one day and noticed it was missing...

    Got some white paint and fixed it, been there ever since..
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson


  2. #152
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,773
    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    One thing I have never got about all this "trigger" stuff on these combat pistols...
    I think the answer to that is here:

    TRIGGER WEIGHT?

    Plus, people frown on competition shooters, but IDPA, etc. is all about hits on target fast. What's different about defensive shooting? Isn't that exactly what we hope to do?

    Most competitive shooters modify their triggers in some way to get an edge, why would we not want to do the same?

    But, the trigger is just one issue about a Glock. I like the way a Glock feels and shoots, but I love the trigger reset. I just installed a Ghost Rocket in my G17 and put a Dave Spaulding cut on the over-travel tab and the reset is so short it's amazing. It truly is better than the standard installation cut.

    You may not see the advantage of trigger characteristics, but many of us, including Dave Spaulding, do. If you could try mine, I think you'd be quite impressed.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  3. #153
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    7,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I think the answer to that is here:

    TRIGGER WEIGHT?

    Plus, people frown on competition shooters, but IDPA, etc. is all about hits on target fast. What's different about defensive shooting? Isn't that exactly what we hope to do?

    Most competitive shooters modify their triggers in some way to get an edge, why would we not want to do the same?

    But, the trigger is just one issue about a Glock. I like the way a Glock feels and shoots, but I love the trigger reset. I just installed a Ghost Rocket in my G17 and put a Dave Spaulding cut on the over-travel tab and the reset is so short it's amazing. It truly is better than the standard installation cut.

    You may not see the advantage of trigger characteristics, but many of us, including Dave Spaulding, do. If you could try mine, I think you'd be quite impressed.
    Your probably right about that for sure... However, I've seen a couple of your videos over the years and you are a much better shooter than I, so I doubt I could even take advantage of the finer trigger and reset to know the difference. But I have been is a couple of situations where I felt my life, or that of a loved one's life was in danger. When fine motor function and adrenalin kick in together and change the dynamics of the altercation hair triggers and itty bitty trigger resets are lost in the equation. When folks say it was like it was in slow motion, that stuff is true. It is amazing what happens when fear and anger combine with adrenalin. As a matter of fact I held off on buy a M&P for the longest time due to the trigger. Not due to the action, but because I thought I might actually break that dang thing in a panic. Fact is, I think if I really wanted I probably could bend, or even break the whole trigger assembly if I really wanted to.

    Anyway, I'm glad your enjoying your Glock and all the mods. Truth be known, I wish I had the time and know how to do the same.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  4. #154
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oceanfront Property
    Posts
    3,850
    It has been proven time and time again that IDPA skills are not transferable in force on force classes. You have to open your mind and train differently. Trigger, sight picture, stance.... all garbage when attacked close quarters and and real life threatening stress is introduced.
    21bubba likes this.

  5. #155
    VIP Member
    Array C hawk Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    W. Washington
    Posts
    3,552
    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    It has been proven time and time again that IDPA skills are not transferable in force on force classes. You have to open your mind and train differently. Trigger, sight picture, stance.... all garbage when attacked close quarters and and real life threatening stress is introduced.
    That is so true! Let me tell you if you got to defend yourself and squeeze off a few rounds in doing so, lets see how much you worry about a audible trigger reset! LOL
    DRM likes this.
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  6. #156
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,773
    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    It has been proven time and time again that IDPA skills are not transferable in force on force classes. You have to open your mind and train differently. Trigger, sight picture, stance.... all garbage when attacked close quarters and and real life threatening stress is introduced.
    That hasn't been true in all the FOF training I've had. I've seen the shooting skills people have been taught go out the window followed with disastrous results. I have yet to see someone with no skills and technique out perform someone with solid shooting techniques.

    For example, what chance do you think you'd have against a BG that had the shooting skills and techniques of Todd Jarrett? What's the difference in you and him? Only technique and honed shooting skills. Todd is not going to throw good shooting technique out the window and think he's going to be better off, and neither am I.

    When we have people like Todd Jarrett training SWAT teams and PDs, there must be something that translates. As taught in SD schools, tactics must be driven by the situation. If someone is toe-to-toe with you it calls for one tactic. If they're 7 yds from you only partially disclosed, you need another tactic and another skill set.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  7. #157
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,773
    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    That is so true! Let me tell you if you got to defend yourself and squeeze off a few rounds in doing so, lets see how much you worry about a audible trigger reset! LOL
    It's not about audible trigger reset in a gunfight. It's about using that as a training tool in dry fire to master trigger management. It's about feeling the trigger reset in live fire so that you can minimize time between shots and maximize placement.

    It kinda sounds like we're saying in a gunfight your training won't help you, you won't use any stance or grip, trigger characteristics won't matter a 12 pound DAO trigger would do just as good as a short light SA trigger.

    So let me ask you guys, how do you train for a gunfight. Do you hold the gun in a less that effective grip, because it doesn't matter in a gun fight? Do you roll on the ground instead of standing in a particular stance, stand on one leg, just how do you train if all this technique is useless in a gunfight?
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  8. #158
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ky.
    Posts
    1,890
    Tangle, have you ever been in a street fight? Have you ever been in a boxing match? Compare the two.
    C hawk Glock likes this.

  9. #159
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,773
    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Your probably right about that for sure... However, I've seen a couple of your videos over the years and you are a much better shooter than I, so I doubt I could even take advantage of the finer trigger and reset to know the difference.
    You've only seen my slow fire; you haven't seen my rapid fire yet. It's more difficult to video that but I have to do that some day.

    You are right though, if one doesn't have the opportunity to exploit features of a gun, pull weight and length, reset, etc. really isn't a factor. You know how I first became aware of trigger reset? In a Gunsite 5 day training class. The instructor was demonstrating trigger reset, and after I heard it I still didn't know what it meant. One day the light went off - ahhh, this is what he was talking about!

    And, I still have mixed feelings about training to specific trigger, be it pull weight, travel distance to break, reset, etc. The conflict I have is that you have to commit to that one gun or several similar guns set up exactly the same way. E.g. A Glock 19 could be set up exactly like a G17, trigger weight, reset and all. You could swap back and forth with those guns without a concern.

    When I took the Blackwater 5-day Level II Handgun course, I took to Beretta 92fs's set up exactly the same. The same D spring in both, the same Wolff Gunsprings trigger return springs in both - everything exactly the same. That was in case something happened to one gun I could go to the second and not even notice a difference.

    OTOH, if one were to acclimate to one of my Glocks the way I have them set up and had to switch to a stock Glock, he'd have some problems.

    I didn't mean to give the idea that M&Ps are not fine guns; they are and will serve you well. But when guys jump into a Glock reliability thread and start claiming M&Ps are the answer to Glock's problems, I have to disagree. I also disagreed with the same mindset when Glockers were claiming Glocks were the answer to all the M&P problems when they were having so much trouble.

    I have both an M&P and Glocks. My personal preference is and has been for the Glock. That's me. That doesn't mean M&Ps aren't a good gun to. Does it mean because I prefer Glock that everyone should rush out and buy one? Well......why not?

    But guys, you need to realize claiming the M&P is the 'best' or a fix for Glock is not going to do anything but cause people to defend Glock. What would you do if Glockers claimed Glock was the fix for an M&P?
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  10. #160
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,773
    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Tangle, have you ever been in a street fight? Have you ever been in a boxing match? Compare the two.
    No, but I've been had lots of FOF training by people that study what works in street fights and bring it into training. Few trainers have been in civilian type gunfights, but they study what happens and look at solutions and techniques that work in the street.

    I've never been in a boxing match either, but I can tell you this, they use the training they've had instead of just getting in there and abandoning their training. I'd love to see a untrained person against a trained boxer.

    So, if technique doesn't help, shooting skill doesn't help, stance and grip doesn't help, I'll ask again, how do you train for a gunfight?
    DRM likes this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  11. #161
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,773
    You know guys here we are in a thread about the reliability of Glocks but discussing something that has nothing to do with the thread. As best I can tell, this started as an attempt to trivialize any advantage there could be to a Glock over an M&P to neutralize that advantage.

    I don't mind if you prefer M&Ps over Glocks, I don't, but the subject here is Glock reliability issues. Let's get back on topic. Enough about M&Ps in a Glock reliability thread and enough about training not working in a gunfight. Blackwater, Threat Focused Shooting, Tactical Shooting Academy, Thunder Ranch, Front Sight, Gunsight, all disagree, as does Todd Jarrett and Rob Leatham and many other trainers.

    So guys, whose version do you think I'm gonna bet my life on? Training or abandon all training because it will be useless?
    DRM likes this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  12. #162
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    That is so true! Let me tell you if you got to defend yourself and squeeze off a few rounds in doing so, lets see how much you worry about a audible trigger reset! LOL
    It's not really about audible reset, it's about the tactile reset. My mind uses the tactility of the reset as a springboard for each successive shot.

    That's why Glocks and 1911s are so popular, I think.


    BTW, I always knew what I was doing with my trigger press, but it was Tangle's blog that defined it for me: tactile reset me gusta mucho
    AZ Hawk likes this.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  13. #163
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,098
    I just don't understand folks buying into the Glock "Safe-Action" trigger concept and then trying to reverse-engineer the thing, attempting to approximate a single-action trigger. A corollary of some of these Glock trigger modifications points to much diminished trigger safety. Wasn't that trigger originally suppose to be one of Glock's claims to fame? Lightening it and shortening it would negate the purported design feature.

    Links:

    3.5 lb. ROCKET

    THE DAVE SPAULDING CUT FOR GLOCKS WITH ROCKETS AND TACTICALS

    "I am calling his contribution to better Ghost
    triggers the "Dave Spaulding Cut" (DS Cut). His idea is a game changer it will
    result in your Ghost ROCKET or TACTICAL having a 1911 or single action type
    pistol trigger reset. We are definitely talking about high speed low drag!"


    Are we depending on our Glocks, so equipped, for personal protection? Or, are these, and other trigger modifications that are on the market, intended for competition only? I personally have no use for Glock pistols but do like reading here on the Forum about what the Glock folks are doing. I depend on the Forum for my Glock reading. It is the only place I keep up with what is going on in the Glock world. It is probably the very best place to see the "big picture" with all things Glock.

    If we are depending on these "high speed low drag" trigger modifications on our carry Glocks then how could we frown on the person who determines to carry his 1911 loaded, safety off and grip safety disabled? Perhaps the Glock would offer some increased "drop" protection over the 1911 but I wouldn't want to be in close proximity to a loaded Glock, equipped with these triggers, when it was dropped on it's butt or back end.

    Please bring some of us up to speed on the safety aspects of these trigger modifications.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  14. #164
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    personally, and I'm no expert in anything, I don't see the difference between swapping out the connector in a Glock and putting a lighter spring in a revolver. Just a little less resistance to fight when pressing the trigger.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  15. #165
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,098
    Zaci, I agree. I never make any spring modifications to my revolvers. They just have to "wear in" and shooting use and dry-firing does a good job on double-action revolvers.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

glock 19 gen 3 erratic ejection
,
glock 20 gen 4 release date
,
glock 23 gen 4 upgrades
,
glock 23 upgrades
,
glock 32 gen 4 release date
,

glock dependability

,

glock gen 5 release date

,
glock mim extractor
,
glock quality
,
glock quality issues
,

jeff cooper glock

,

jeff cooper on glocks

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors