Glock once stood for uber eliability; I don't think it does presently - UPDATE in OP

[Tangle]

While I'm not a machinist, from what I'm reading it's in some new MIM manufactured extractor which started being used in Gen 3 Glocks since Oct 2010 and all of the Gen 4's. I've read the only MIM manufactured part in the Glock is that one part (the extractor) and only in the US manufactured Glocks. All the guns made in Austria still use the machined extractor.

One Glock armorer ("TexasPOff" on Glock Talk) has since found that the MIM Extractor is 1/1,000 of an inch off spec. from the machined version. What he did was trade one of his machined extractor from one of his Glocks and put it in an offending Glock -19 and it rectified the problem. He then, put the offending MIM extractor in his known reliable Glock and it started having problems like the Gen 4 G-19.

Thanks Bark'n!

However, there have been numerous reports of Glock replacing extractors, ejectors, RSAs, and individuals doing the same, all to no avail. One company experimented with all of that in an attempt to isolate the problem. He basically did what was described in the thread link you posted. His conclusion? None of that helped. What did help was lowering the ejection port. But again, I think that fixed that gun. The frustrating thing is, will that fix the next 100 guns?

I'm an engineer, and a pretty decent machinist as well. It is extremely, extremely difficult for me to believe that a Glock is so precision manufactured, that one part, especially an extractor, being of by one thousandth of an inch, would stop a Glock from working. For reference a human hair is about 3 thousands of an inch.

But that's kinda what this thread is about - we didn't see these kinds of things in older Glocks. We basically bought them, shot them, knowing they'd work right every time.

It's just disappointing to hear the gun company that represents uber reliability seems to have lost it's way lately.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Tangle]

I am a huge glock fan, but there is no doubt that glock has dropped the ball over the last year or so and are having lots of issues.

They completely redesigned the extractor (some say it is a MIM part) and it is garbage IMHO.

I have a gen3 19 that constantly stove pipes and ejects shells to the head. I was looking at the extractor today, comparing it to my much older glock 26 that has 10 times the amount of rounds through it and runs perfect (5,000 vs 500) and the difference in extractors is very obvious. The one in the 19 is very worn, the claw part looks somewhat chewed up as if I was dropping the slide on a round in the chamber (which I am not). The extractor in the 26 looks great.

So what does glock do? They redesign the ejector. So instead of fixing the part that is the issue, they redesign the ejector that they have been using for a long time that has always worked perfect.

Something is obviously up with Glock, they did something to the design or manufacturing process and it isn't working as well.



Hopefully a new extractor will fix the problem.

I'm afraid you're right on all counts.

[Tangle]

I am intentionally abusing mine as part of a long term writeup. With excellent results.

Ok, I'm with you now - very cool - please keep me updated on this.

[SIXTO]

I think Glock fell flat on its face with the Gen 4 guns. I can only say that the "upgrades" were stupid. As a result of loosing the focus Mr. Glock took a lot of heat over throughout the years, they are starting to have problems across the board.

I would of liked Glock to keep the same mechanicals, but refine things a little like a more ergonomic grip and machine the slide exterior a little more to give a sleeker profile. That would have sold like hotcakes. But oh well, who am I to tell Glock what they should have done?

With all that said, I still think Glock makes the pistols most likely to be 100% off the shelf, even if they have slipped a little in recent times.

[Tangle]

I'm not sure Glock had much choice SIXTO. Just about every polymer gun on the market has adjustable grips and Glock grips were pretty big. M&P is taking a bite of Glock's LE market and I think Glock had to respond with a more competitive design.

I have little experience right now with the gen 4, but I really like it. But it's not just the gen 4 that's having problems, the newer G19 gen 3s are too. So, I'm not so sure it's so much a generation problem as it is improperly designed or manufactured issues that cross generation lines.

[SIXTO]

I'm not sure Glock had much choice SIXTO. Just about every polymer gun on the market has adjustable grips and Glock grips were pretty big. M&P is taking a bite of Glock's LE market and I think Glock had to respond with a more competitive design.

I have little experience right now with the gen 4, but I really like it. But it's not just the gen 4 that's having problems, the newer G19 gen 3s are too. So, I'm not so sure it's so much a generation problem as it is improperly designed or manufactured issues that cross generation lines.

Yeah, I know. If they were going to mess with the grip, I think they should have done a complete redesign to come up with a true answer to the M&P ergonomics. They failed at that in a big way.

[slave]

Glock can't redesign the grip ergonomics. That fat blocky cinder block feeling is what glock shooters prefer.

If they changed that, they wouldn't be glocks.

[bmcgilvray]

Were the older Glocks really that much more dependable than the current crop?

Some have never bought into the notion of Glock "uber reliability" in the first place. In some circles it's considered just another pistol that happens to have popularized molded plastic as a major component material. It's a pistol that the current generation of shooters have embraced, one that "the crowd" buys.

I've shot others' Glocks, have kept one around the house for some months that was given to me as a loaner to play with, but have never owned one to gather up long-term personal experiences with the design. I have enjoyed the same dependability with Colt 1911s that so many claim for their Glocks.

The 1911s I'm familiar with have given perfect reliability and satisfaction so I'm uninterested in even building any sort of relationship with a Glock product.

Neither the Glock nor the 1911 are absolutely infallible despite their respective fans assertions. Both could be said to have garnered reputations that are a bit overblown. Most folks are ok with plastic and some still like steel.

I have read enough here on the Forum to determine that I would shun a 4th generation Glock as a keeper if offered one in a gun trade. I could see keeping an earlier Glock around to play with for a while.

[Thunder71]

I don't own a Glock or really care to - but some people just buy into the 'Perfection' trademark a little too much... Simply put, all guns can fail and with more and more people owning guns than ever before you'll have more failures. Increased production, an 'I want the newest version not now, but yesterday' society... It all takes a toll.

[OldVet]

Isn't it the norm on "custom" and T-o-L 1911s to lower and flare the ejection port? Isn't that against JB's commandments?

[tkruf]

We have two Glock 19s. One standard black and one EXO coated fail zero model. A little while back, our standard G19 was throwing casings back and hitting the wife in the head, and one hot case went down the front of the shirt. We posted about it and we kept getting told that it was her grip. I saw nothing wrong with her grip. The gun just barely misses my head. Once it did get me. We haven't shot it in so long now that I don't know where it stands. The EXO, from what I remember, last time we shot it, it didn't throw them back at our forehead. Both are Gen 3. The standard one was bought Oct 12, 2010 and the EXO was bought in April 2011. Now we are going to have to go shoot them again so I can refresh my memory. I might need to send one or both back to Glock and have some adjusting done.

[SIXTO]

Glock can't redesign the grip ergonomics. That fat blocky cinder block feeling is what glock shooters prefer.

If they changed that, they wouldn't be glocks.

I would not suggest the Glock discontinue the Gen 3 guns. Its arguably the most successful platform ever. But, they do some new blood, and the 4 is not it.

[Tangle]

Were the older Glocks really that much more dependable than the current crop?

Yes. There were problems with older Glocks, but not to this extent.

...Some have never bought into the notion of Glock "uber reliability" in the first place. In some circles it's considered just another pistol that happens to have popularized molded plastic as a major component material...

I didn't mean to suggest Glocks were uber reliable while others were not. Rather that Glocks were reliable - they just work. We didn't worry about getting hit in the head with brass. Although my G22 Gen 4 has been flawless through 100 rounds (and counting of course), I now have to wonder if it's going to develop a problem near the 2000 round mark.

...I've shot others' Glocks, have kept one around the house for some months that was given to me as a loaner to play with, but have never owned one to gather up long-term personal experiences with the design. I have enjoyed the same dependability with Colt 1911s that so many claim for their Glocks.

I understand, but again I didn't mean Glock to the exclusion of any other gun. However, perhaps the most famous Glock is Chuck Taylor's. It now has over a million round through it.

Right now, my top picks in trustworthiness is the Sig P226/9 and H&K P30L, but that's my personal picks.

...Neither the Glock nor the 1911 are absolutely infallible despite their respective fans assertions.

I agree, and uber reliable doesn't mean flawless, but there's a big difference in older Glocks and the newer ones. Glock will probably work these issues out and this time next year these problems will be nothing more than a small bump in the road.

[Tangle]

I would not suggest the Glock discontinue the Gen 3 guns. Its arguably the most successful platform ever. But, they do some new blood, and the 4 is not it.

I disagree. Once Glock works out the problems with the Gen 4s, they will be widely accepted. When it comes replacement time, LE will start issue them, In fact, they already do.

If the gen 4 proves to be as reliable as the gen 3s, which had to prove to be as reliable as gen 2s, what's not to like about a gen 4? Adjustable grip, reversible mag catch, a decent grip texture, and the dual spring adds more tuning possibilities. Everything else is essentially a Glock.

[SIXTO]

I don't know... I'm seeing a lot of the aging Glock fleet getting replaced with the M&P among the big number LE purchases.