Glock once stood for uber eliability; I don't think it does presently - UPDATE in OP

This is a discussion on Glock once stood for uber eliability; I don't think it does presently - UPDATE in OP within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think it's undeniable that 'Glock' has been synonymous with reliability and dependability. But, as of late, say since 2010, it seems Glock just can't ...

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    Glock once stood for uber eliability; I don't think it does presently - UPDATE in OP

    I think it's undeniable that 'Glock' has been synonymous with reliability and dependability. But, as of late, say since 2010, it seems Glock just can't get things right.

    --------------------------------------------------------
    UPDATE 27-Jan-2012:
    While Glock quality may not be what it once was right now - I do believe Glock is making adjustments both in part manufacturing and design to bring Glocks up to the standard we expect from them.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    I've read bunches of reports from Glock owners that have bought G19s lately that are having several issues with them. Some have had their Glock back to Glock for repair several times. Ejection seems to be one issue. It seems the cases are hitting shooters in the head. One person reported trying all the 'fixes', different RSAs, different extractors, and ejectors - nothing helped. Finally, one person sent his Glock to somebody, don't recall who, and they machined the ejection port lower and the problem went away.

    Another reports this: from one of his threads:
    "Anyone got their GEN3 back fixed? If so what did they do to fix it? For my gun anyways it's not the extractor I tried 3 different ones and 3 different recoil set up's of different weights. That leaves ejector, extractor plunger assembly (spring maybe), or slide cut/machining problems....

    Then, from another thread by the same guy regarding how Glock 'fixed' his gen 3 problem:
    "just short and to the point. My replacement GEN4 G19 with the updated parts has been good to go for about 1700 rounds. Somewhere around 1800-2000 rounds the erratic ejection started. Left, over my head, back at my safety glasses, all the usual stuff. Doing it with multiple types and weights of ammo. With other folks shooting it. Something is evidently wearing out after so many rounds. Called Glock they are sending me a new RSA."

    Then there's the gen 4 issues we've seen posted here on DC. Although there have been the usual limp wrist/shooter error responses, it's been established that these are not shooter induced issues. E.G. if it is truly shooter induced, why is Glock paying for shipping both ways to fix 'the shooter problem'? Why did Glock replace a G19 gen 3 (late manufacture) with a gen 4?

    Why did the replacement gen 4 start having problems after 1700 rounds? I think that's the thing that really bothers me. Apparently Glock could not get the gen 3 working and so they replaced it with a gen 4 and it only delayed the issue. What's happened to the Glocks we used to trust and depend on that would fire hundreds of thousands of rounds? What's happening to Glock?
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    Ex Member Array slave's Avatar
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    Clearly you are have a wild imagination. There is never a problem with anything Glock, Gunney would slap you if he was here.

    On a more serious note.... Titan's fall. People get greedy. I think they have been "streamlining" the manufacture process. This is making them more money, but with the corner cutting comes the same issues every other mass produced item has. Quality. They simply make too many Glocks to meet demand to be able to maintain those hand made quality standards.

    They will fix it. I just hope that lives don't get lost because of this mythical Glock reliabilty.

    I think Glocks are tied for the most dependable hand gun, they are not without issues though.
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    Oh...this should be good....
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    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    Clearly you are have a wild imagination. There is never a problem with anything Glock, Gunney would slap you if he was here.
    ROFL!! What was I thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    ...On a more serious note.... Titan's fall. People get greedy. I think they have been "streamlining" the manufacture process. This is making them more money, but with the corner cutting comes the same issues every other mass produced item has. Quality. They simply make too many Glocks to meet demand to be able to maintain those hand made quality standards...
    There is that, I would agree, but I think there's more to it than cutting corners as well. Trying to remain competitive I think, has forced Glock to do some redesigns, which I think are good. The problem is they can't seem to get them right.

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    ....I just hope that lives don't get lost because of this mythical Glock reliabilty...
    Amen to that!

    And, that's speaks to the heart of the problem. I'm concerned that people buy new Glocks based on the reputation of the old Glocks - that seems to be two different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    ...I think Glocks are tied for the most dependable hand gun, they are not without issues though.
    I would agree that the older Glocks are, but how can we know about the new models? I mean, here's one guy that didn't see any issues until he had shot some 1700 rounds.

    At this point in time, I couldn't consider Glocks to have anywhere near the reliability and dependability as new Sigs P229/6s, P2022s, or Hk P30s.
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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    My gen 3 g17 has not been cleaned or lubed for 5000 rounds and about 2 years. Took her out yesterday in the desert and put 600 fail free rounds through it. Don't plan on cleaning or lubing it any time soon. I don't need to buy new and shiny. I have reliable.

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    Well I have not fired 1700 rounds thought my Gen 3 Glock 17 or Gen 3 Glock 26. But with several hundred rounds thought each, they have been flawless.

    I’ve read some reports from those with the new Gen 4 and a few were having problems. But from reports I’ve read, Glock resolved the issues in July of 2011.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    My gen 3 g17 has not been cleaned or lubed for 5000 rounds and about 2 years. Took her out yesterday in the desert and put 600 fail free rounds through it. Don't plan on cleaning or lubing it any time soon. I don't need to buy new and shiny. I have reliable.
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    Why wouldn't the new generation Glocks be as good or better as the previous generation Glocks? Isn't technology getting better?

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    While I'm not a machinist, from what I'm reading it's in some new MIM manufactured extractor which started being used in Gen 3 Glocks since Oct 2010 and all of the Gen 4's. I've read the only MIM manufactured part in the Glock is that one part (the extractor) and only in the US manufactured Glocks. All the guns made in Austria still use the machined extractor.

    One Glock armorer ("TexasPOff" on Glock Talk) has since found that the MIM Extractor is 1/1,000 of an inch off spec. from the machined version. What he did was trade one of his machined extractor from one of his Glocks and put it in an offending Glock -19 and it rectified the problem. He then, put the offending MIM extractor in his known reliable Glock and it started having problems like the Gen 4 G-19.

    He then honed down the MIM extractor and brought it into spec with the machined extractors and returned it to the original owner. The offending Gen 4 G-19 now runs as it should.

    Check out this thread from Glock Talk. Gen4 G-19, I Give Up! Pay attention to the conversation between the thread starter "FyreCalG17" and "TexasPOff" (armorer)

    Again, I'm not a machinist but what is being discussed makes sense.


    I also found this video which I thought was the most interesting of all the other videos I've seen on the Gen 4 problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    My gen 3 g17 has not been cleaned or lubed for 5000 rounds and about 2 years. Took her out yesterday in the desert and put 600 fail free rounds through it. Don't plan on cleaning or lubing it any time soon. I don't need to buy new and shiny. I have reliable.
    That is exactly what we've come to expect from older Glocks. Well, I wouldn't run 5000 rounds without lubing one. Although they will run dry, they are NOT designed to. Dry metal on dry metal will ALWAYS wear faster than lubed metal - dirty or not.

    But the issue is that kind of reliability in the newer models?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadsnugun View Post
    Oh...this should be good....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    That is exactly what we've come to expect from older Glocks. Well, I wouldn't run 5000 rounds without lubing one. Although they will run dry, they are NOT designed to. Dry metal on dry metal will ALWAYS wear faster than lubed metal - dirty or not.

    But the issue is that kind of reliability in the newer models?
    I think it's a given that there is a general consensus of skepticism with the Gen4's.

    However, I've never had a failure in any of my Gen3 G26, G19 & G30 models. Granted, I don't intentionally abuse them but they certainly get a lot less attention than any other handguns that I own.
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    I am a huge glock fan, but there is no doubt that glock has dropped the ball over the last year or so and are having lots of issues.

    They completely redesigned the extractor (some say it is a MIM part) and it is garbage IMHO.

    I have a gen3 19 that constantly stove pipes and ejects shells to the head. I was looking at the extractor today, comparing it to my much older glock 26 that has 10 times the amount of rounds through it and runs perfect (5,000 vs 500) and the difference in extractors is very obvious. The one in the 19 is very worn, the claw part looks somewhat chewed up as if I was dropping the slide on a round in the chamber (which I am not). The extractor in the 26 looks great.

    So what does glock do? They redesign the ejector. So instead of fixing the part that is the issue, they redesign the ejector that they have been using for a long time that has always worked perfect.

    Something is obviously up with Glock, they did something to the design or manufacturing process and it isn't working as well.



    Hopefully a new extractor will fix the problem.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I am intentionally abusing mine as part of a long term writeup. With excellent results.

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    Tangle,

    I think you were hitting the mark when you mentioned this.

    There is that, I would agree, but I think there's more to it than cutting corners as well. Trying to remain competitive I think, has forced Glock to do some redesigns, which I think are good. The problem is they can't seem to get them right.
    I have said the same thing before as well. For decades Glock basically left their design alone. They had something that worked and they stuck with it. (Chevy should had kept their 350 and Ford should have kept their 300 straight 6) However with the gun market the way it is, Glock stepped off into the design change/upgrade that most all other manufacturers have gotten into.

    Whether it was because Glock was starting to loose some of the market share due to the aged design, or some other reason, only Glock officials themselves have that answer.

    But now, since they are coming up with new designs or using different manufacturing techniqes they are facing the same problems that all other manufacturers have faced. Try something new and your going to have some failures when the "new thing" is out on the market and in the hands of thousands of different customers, things that didn't show up in the R&D rear their ugly heads. Pick any manufacturer and it is there when the new product hits the public for the most part.

    Not to derail the thread, but I think this is the reason that Taurus has issues and folks love to bash them. They try lots and lots of new things with their guns.

    If Glock had developed more pistol lines over the last couple of decades, they would have had lots more "issues" with their guns and reliability problems with parts or designs. Once they, or their customers for that matter, get the kinks worked out of their new products they should be reliable once again, as long as they don't change anything in the design. Afterall, if the manufacturer doesn't tweak their product to make it more reliable based on feedback from usage, it probably isn't going to be on customers wish list for very long and the manufacturer will drop that product line. If they get it working like it is supposed to be, folks will give it all the praise and they will sell many more.

    I am sure Glock will get this worked out, until then maybe purchasing the new model might not be the best thing to do if you expect a gun to have zero malfunctions ever.
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