Question about the legality on the 3.5lb disconnector on carry glocks. - Page 3

Question about the legality on the 3.5lb disconnector on carry glocks.

This is a discussion on Question about the legality on the 3.5lb disconnector on carry glocks. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 And then what? Wanting a more accurate, consistent trigger pull should be easy enough to establish, and defend. Prosecution puts glock ...

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  1. #31
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    And then what? Wanting a more accurate, consistent trigger pull should be easy enough to establish, and defend.
    Prosecution puts glock expert or glock rep on the stand.

    Prosecution - " Mr. Glock, can you please take a second and tell us about your company"

    Glock - "We have been the number one authority and experts on law enforcement sidearms for 25 years. We have been designing, manufacturing and supplying the nations law enforcement with the best firearms out there. For over 25 years we have been the number one firearm supplier in the law enforcement market. Currently over 65% of all law enforcement angencies in the United States uses our pistol. We have studied self defense shootings and are the experts when it comes to what is needed in a firearm to protect yourself in a life or death encounter etc............... (which abviously is true since 65% of our nations best trained experts in law enforcement use glocks).

    Prosecution - "wow!, that is impressive.

    Prosecution asks all kinds of questions to show the jury that this person and glock is the absolute authority in the nation when it comes to building and using pistols to protect themselves. Educates the jury on what the connector does. Lets cut to the chase.

    Prosecution - What is Glocks policy with respect to the 3.5/4.5 connector etc................?

    Glock - Glock NEVER allows any pistols that our law enforcement use to protect themselves to have the 3.5/4.5 connector. It simply is a very bad idea. The lower trigger weight causes the shooter to fire shots negligently etc.... Glock has always disclaimed to our civilian customers that they should NEVER use the 3.5/4.5 connector in any glock that is to be used for self defense.

    Next the prosecution puts the NYPD expert on the stand.

    The NYPD then tells a big story how they are the biggest police dept in the nation, have used glocks forever, have had many shootings, are the absolute experts in the field and why we would never use the 3.5/4.5 connector etc........

    Then the prosecution tells the juror full of people who have never even shot a gun how YOU did everything wrong, how YOU didn't follow any of the disclaimers that the NATION'S experts told YOU to follow and that YOU killed someone negligently etc...........

    Don't forget all the theatrics that go along with this. The actual law has very little to do with whether you get convicted or not. I have been a juror on several criminal trials and actual facts have very little to do with what lawyers say are facts when trying to convince the jury. It is one big dog and pony show full of a bunch of BS.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyDTrigger View Post
    I recently read in a magazine about a case that involved such issue. The person was not convicted criminally, but the judge allowed the civil trial to move forward just because the defendant had modified the trigger (made it lighter).
    Legal self-defense shoot in FL? ...then no civil judgements either.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Prosecution puts glock expert or glock rep on the stand.

    Prosecution - " Mr. Glock, can you please take a second and tell us about your company"

    Glock - "We have been the number one authority and experts on law enforcement sidearms for 25 years. We have been designing, manufacturing and supplying the nations law enforcement with the best firearms out there. For over 25 years we have been the number one firearm supplier in the law enforcement market. Currently over 65% of all law enforcement angencies in the United States uses are pistol. We have studied self defense shootings and are the experts when it comes to what is needed in a firearm to protect yourself in a life or death encounter etc...............

    Prosecution - "wow!, that is impressive.

    Prosecution asks all kinds of questions to show the jury that this person and glock is the absolute authority in the nation when it comes to building and using pistols to protect themselves. Educates the jury on what the connector does. Lets cut to the chase.

    Prosecution - What is Glocks policy with respect to the 3.5/4.5 connector etc................?

    Glock - Glock NEVER allows any pistols that our law enforcement use to protect themselves to have the 3.5/4.5 connector. It simply is a very bad idea. The lower trigger weight causes the shooter to fire shots negligently etc.... Glock has always disclaimed to our civilian customers that they should NEVER use the 3.5/4.5 connector in any glock that is to be used for self defense.

    Next the prosecution puts the NYPD expert on the stand.

    The NYPD then tells a big story how they are the biggest police dept in the nation, have used glocks forever, have had many shootings, are the absolute experts in the field and why we would never use the 3.5/4.5 connector etc........

    Then the prosecution tells the juror full of people who have never even shot a gun how YOU did everything wrong, how you didn't follow any of the disclaimers that the NATION'S experts told you to follow and that you killed someone negligently etc...........
    That is a wonderful hypothetical, but do you have any case law demonstrating that in all those years involving all those firearms, this scenario has played itself anywhere? Please, be specific. Thanks
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    That is a wonderful hypothetical, but do you have any case law demonstrating that in all those years involving all those firearms, this scenario has played itself anywhere? Please, be specific. Thanks
    Does it really matter other than that it is possible and this type of theatrics has been done before. Remember the Fish case and the fact that he used a 10mm was a huge deal in his trial. Huge powerful round that even the police would never use......................etc.......

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Prosecution puts glock expert or glock rep on the stand.

    Prosecution - " Mr. Glock, can you please take a second and tell us about your company"

    Glock - "We have been the number one authority and experts on law enforcement sidearms for 25 years. We have been designing, manufacturing and supplying the nations law enforcement with the best firearms out there. For over 25 years we have been the number one firearm supplier in the law enforcement market. Currently over 65% of all law enforcement angencies in the United States uses our pistol. We have studied self defense shootings and are the experts when it comes to what is needed in a firearm to protect yourself in a life or death encounter etc............... (which abviously is true since 65% of our nations best trained experts in law enforcement use glocks).

    Prosecution - "wow!, that is impressive.

    Prosecution asks all kinds of questions to show the jury that this person and glock is the absolute authority in the nation when it comes to building and using pistols to protect themselves. Educates the jury on what the connector does. Lets cut to the chase.

    Prosecution - What is Glocks policy with respect to the 3.5/4.5 connector etc................?

    Glock - Glock NEVER allows any pistols that our law enforcement use to protect themselves to have the 3.5/4.5 connector. It simply is a very bad idea. The lower trigger weight causes the shooter to fire shots negligently etc.... Glock has always disclaimed to our civilian customers that they should NEVER use the 3.5/4.5 connector in any glock that is to be used for self defense.

    Next the prosecution puts the NYPD expert on the stand.

    The NYPD then tells a big story how they are the biggest police dept in the nation, have used glocks forever, have had many shootings, are the absolute experts in the field and why we would never use the 3.5/4.5 connector etc........

    Then the prosecution tells the juror full of people who have never even shot a gun how YOU did everything wrong, how YOU didn't follow any of the disclaimers that the NATION'S experts told YOU to follow and that YOU killed someone negligently etc...........

    Don't forget all the theatrics that go along with this. The actual law has very little to do with whether you get convicted or not. I have been a juror on several criminal trials and actual facts have very little to do with what lawyers say are facts when trying to convince the jury. It is one big dog and pony show full of a bunch of BS.
    What a load of
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Does it really matter other than that it is possible and this type of theatrics has been done before. Remember the Fish case and the fact that he used a 10mm was a huge deal in his trial. Huge powerful round that even the police would never use......................etc.......
    The FBI issued S&W's in 10mm for a time ....... and the Fish trial was pure Prosecutorial & Judicial Misconduct.
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  7. #37
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    The Glock 34 is in use by SWAT teams in the US and abroad.

    The stock connector in the 34 is the 3.5.

    So much for the "Glock forbids / doesn't approve / kills a kitten if you use " the 3.5 connector in LE / defensive applications....
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    the fbi issued s&w's in 10mm for a time ....... And the fish trial was pure prosecutorial & judicial misconduct.
    exactly
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Does it really matter other than that it is possible and this type of theatrics has been done before. Remember the Fish case and the fact that he used a 10mm was a huge deal in his trial. Huge powerful round that even the police would never use......................etc.......
    Reality does matter. Trials always involve theatrics. I can't speak to the effectiveness of Mr. Fish's defense team, but I'm pretty sure the 10mm was originally developed as a LE caliber, and is the exact same round, shortened, that many LEOs carry today.
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  10. #40
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    DA: "Why did you put a 3.5lb trigger in your gun? Were you trying to make it easier to shoot people?"
    Answer: No, I tried to make it easier to AVOID hitting an innocent bystander.
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  11. #41
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    as a cop that shoots glocks, in a dept that has glock as standard issue, had my chl for 5 years before I went into LE, and has researched/studied all this type of stuff....IMO if you're in a predominantly anti state or area of a state, you will have more to worry about in a SD shooting vs being in another state/part of state, with the scumbag lawyers we have these days suing for everything and anything, almost all of it ridiculous BS; the connectors are made to lighten trigger pull in order to have MORE ACCURACY, so therefore the shooter would be less likely to inadvertently shoot an innocent bystander and shows they are being responsible not irresponsible with their guns, only when one would have a ND would a lighter trigger pull come into play as evidence of negligence, if you are faced with a deadly threat and intentionally pull the trigger to stop that threat the lb on the trigger is irrelevant, any good lawyer would be able to show that no matter the intelligence level of the jury
    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Prosecution puts glock expert or glock rep on the stand.

    Prosecution - " Mr. Glock, can you please take a second and tell us about your company"

    Glock - "We have been the number one authority and experts on law enforcement sidearms for 25 years.
    based on who's opinion or what fact?I'm a Glock fan (not fanatic, don't say all else sucks) but this is totally worthless as a statement in court, S&W & Colt could say that with more weight than Glock since they've been around longer, other players like Sig, H&K, etc could all toot their horns

    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    We have been designing, manufacturing and supplying the nations law enforcement with the best firearms out there. For over 25 years we have been the number one firearm supplier in the law enforcement market. Currently over 65% of all law enforcement angencies in the United States uses our pistol. We have studied self defense shootings and are the experts when it comes to what is needed in a firearm to protect yourself in a life or death encounter etc............... (which abviously is true since 65% of our nations best trained experts in law enforcement use glocks).
    maybe, maybe not, again...would be opinion, others might say they sell to 65% of agencies because they cost less....a la lowest bidder concept, comes into play when you buy 1000s of pistols at a time


    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Prosecution - "wow!, that is impressive.
    maybe to the uneducated on the subject, a good lawyer will show that any firearms manufacturer toots their own horn, the opinion of S&W/Colt would be more impressive since they've been making firearms and supplying to police/military since 1862 and 1836 respectively

    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Prosecution asks all kinds of questions to show the jury that this person and glock is the absolute authority in the nation when it comes to building and using pistols to protect themselves. Educates the jury on what the connector does. Lets cut to the chase.

    Prosecution - What is Glocks policy with respect to the 3.5/4.5 connector etc................?

    Glock - Glock NEVER allows any pistols that our law enforcement use to protect themselves to have the 3.5/4.5 connector. It simply is a very bad idea. The lower trigger weight causes the shooter to fire shots negligently etc.... Glock has always disclaimed to our civilian customers that they should NEVER use the 3.5/4.5 connector in any glock that is to be used for self defense.
    Glock doesn't allow or not allow SQUAT in this decision, department policies/rangemasters are the ones that allow/don't allow things, Glock would never say its 3.5/4.5 connectors cause shooters to fire shots negligently...doing so would be a slap in their own face in the competition shooting world which would affect their reputation and sales

    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Next the prosecution puts the NYPD expert on the stand.

    The NYPD then tells a big story how they are the biggest police dept in the nation, have used glocks forever, have had many shootings, are the absolute experts in the field and why we would never use the 3.5/4.5 connector etc........
    this is laughable and again would be based on opinions, first NYPD insisted that Glock make a HEAVIER trigger pull than the factory 5.5 because they were transitioning from revolvers to pistols and the powers that be wanted to attempt to replicate the pull of their revolvers with the pistols (and were bothered by the thought of liability), hence the NY trigger (connector) that NYPD puts in their pistols, takes more work to get good at accuracy and speed as compared to factory....and is related to the reasoning behind the 3.5 connector....to be more accurate (as stated per Glock for real

    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Then the prosecution tells the juror full of people who have never even shot a gun how YOU did everything wrong, how YOU didn't follow any of the disclaimers that the NATION'S experts told YOU to follow and that YOU killed someone negligently etc...........
    and a good lawyer will tell of how 1000s & 1000s of people around the world put 3.5 connectors in their Glocks and don't have NDs or negligently shoot people; remember the thought of glock saying not to use the 3.5 connector isn't because they think its bad or will cause problems.....they would say that because of liability, this has nothing to do with how well or not the part would function in a given siuation

    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Don't forget all the theatrics that go along with this. The actual law has very little to do with whether you get convicted or not. I have been a juror on several criminal trials and actual facts have very little to do with what lawyers say are facts when trying to convince the jury. It is one big dog and pony show full of a bunch of BS.
    the actual law has everything to do with case, all the trials I've been involved in center around the actual statute, whether the incident met the elements of the crime, then proving the person did it, a good lawyer will make this the center of the case, the strength of the connector will only be an issue in a ND, not an intentional SD situation, in a SD shoot the aspect of whether the person was justified in defending themselves is the main issue, not what trigger pull they had, EXCEPT in a ND case

    for those that don't know, the Glock mfg connector labeled as "3.5lb" is actually only 4.5lb, to achieve true 3.5 a Ghost or other aftermarket connector needs to be used (as stated by the Glock factory rep in my armorer's course...which btw was taught to a room full of LEOs, most of which put 3.5 connectors in the duty pistols and the factory rep said it wasn't a big deal to them)
    gorilla45 likes this.
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  12. #42
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    I don't think you can get down to 3.5 pounds in a Glock without changing out springs in addition to the disconnector.

    As far as picking a line out of the owner's manual goes, al oat all of them tell owners not to load the gun until ready to shoot. Does having a loaded gun mean a Smith & Wesson / Ruger / Sig / H & K rep will be testifying against us, too?

    I'd suggest not.....
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    The Glock 34 is in use by SWAT teams in the US and abroad.

    The stock connector in the 34 is the 3.5.

    So much for the "Glock forbids / doesn't approve / kills a kitten if you use " the 3.5 connector in LE / defensive applications....
    Wrong, all LE glock 34s come from glock with the 5.5 connector. You purchase a blue label 34 and it will have the 5.5 connector in it.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Aside from the fact that the case involves civil liability in an accidental shooting, were there any footnotes in Ayoob's account referencing the actual case?
    No, nothing specific.

    Other examples used by the author are, deactivating safety devices, problems with handloading ammo (making it hotter than factory ammo), and S/A only pistols with very light trigger pulls

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Reality does matter. Trials always involve theatrics. I can't speak to the effectiveness of Mr. Fish's defense team, but I'm pretty sure the 10mm was originally developed as a LE caliber, and is the exact same round, shortened, that many LEOs carry today.
    And the 10mm was found to be too powerful so it was down loaded, ala .40 S&W etc..... tell all the BS you want to the jury etc....

    Look, I realize that a good shoot is a good shoot. I am playing devils advocate etc.... but I have no doubt with all the don't use the 3.5/4.5 connector from Glock, Mas Ayoob and other industry "experts" it could and will be made a big deal in a trial under the right circumstances.

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