Just some thoughts about the .357 sig vs .40 S&W

[UpTheIrons69]

I have suspected that might be the case since secret service and the like have carried 357 Sig, but I'm still thinking that shot placement is a huge factor.

Somewhere on one of these forums I read about a guy who was shot and hit 11 times by 9mm bullets and lived to testify against the guy that shot him. The account was somewhat sketchy without any real details on where he was hit, but I'm sure that if the first round had been a head shot the other 10 would have been superfluous.

There's a rapper, 50 cent, who was shot 9 or 10 times with 9 mm, some chest shots, and survived. Details are out there, I just don't remember them.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[kerberos]

As a joke, when I recently purchased my current CCW, the dealer said "Why don't you man up and get something that starts with a 4?"

He then laughed and told me that as long as it was a "service caliber" that I would be ok.

To back it up, he did a google search on "shotgun attack survivors" or something similar and we checked out a few of the links.

AMAZING what some people have survived!!! Of course, I remember a kid in my elementary school killed by a .22

End result;

I'm in the shot placement camp when it comes to the caliber wars and don't think I'll be going anywhere else soon.

Not closing my mind on the subject though!!!

[gryphon]

I wasn't trying to defend the 45 acp. i don't even own a .45. I was trying to point out that (after a certain point anyway) shot placement is probably more important than caliber. there are cases of people surviving a lot of things that typicaly would be fatal. As a kid at a skydiving exhibition we watched a man fall to the ground. his chute never opened. He was actualy standing when the ambulance arrived. However, this doesn't prove that falling from an airplane won't kill a man anymore than the police pumping 20 rounds into a guy proves the .45 is not fatal.

[oneshot]

There used to be an ammo ballistics board. I forget the name now, but he did a bunch of gel test comparisons of the contemporary ammo of that day, probably about 10 years ago.

His gel blocks were enclosed or at least partially by some wooden boards and he stated that the .357 sig was the only handgun round that broke the wooden frame boards!

I don't know if that could be repeated, etc., but this guy was pretty well thought of in the field. And the .357 sig today may not be a .357 sig of yesterday. Anyway, this thread wasn't meant to prove anything; I just thought it would be of interest why the THP, or at least the reason given, went to the .357 sig.

^^^^^^TO Bold above^^^^^^^^^^^


Found it for you Tangle:


From article;

I’d like to discuss some excellent information from the Ammo Lab | Ammo Lab forum group. This ammolab site specializes in testing ammo and is one of the top 9 firearms sites on the planet:



He has tested several thousand rounds of the usual 9, 40, 45, etc. When he tested the 357 Sig Winchester Ranger and Remington Golden Saber ammo, it did something only the 10mm Silvertip has been able to do. Both of these rounds cracked the top plate that holds the gelatin blocks in place during testing. It’s obvious that these 357 Sig rounds dump more energy into 12 – 14 inches of gelatin than most other rounds he has tested.



When he reinforced the top plates, the same two 357 Sig rounds mentioned above then cracked the lower plate. The best 9mm loads, such as the Ranger 127gr +P+ barely created a ripple in the gelatin in comparison.

From this link,,,,,,,, HandGunInfo.com: 357SIG: 357 Sig and 9mm Comparison

[oneshot]

I wasn't trying to defend the 45 acp. i don't even own a .45. I was trying to point out that (after a certain point anyway) shot placement is probably more important than caliber. there are cases of people surviving a lot of things that typicaly would be fatal. As a kid at a skydiving exhibition we watched a man fall to the ground. his chute never opened. He was actualy standing when the ambulance arrived. However, this doesn't prove that falling from an airplane won't kill a man anymore than the police pumping 20 rounds into a guy proves the .45 is not fatal.

Funny^^^^^^^^^^^

You should mention this(sorry for the de-rail)

Alan Magee was blown from his B-17 on a 1943 mission over France. The New Jersey airman, more recently the subject of a MythBusters episode, fell 20,000 feet (6,700 m - over four miles) before crashing through the glass roof of the St. Nazaire railroad station. Somehow the glass roof mitigated Magee's impact and rescuers found him still alive on the station's floor. He was subsequently captured by German troops, who were astonished at his survival. He had 28 shrapnel wounds in addition to the damage from the fall. He had several broken bones, severe damage to his nose and eye, and lung and kidney damage, his right arm was severely injured as well. (Link)

Taken from here, ,,,, 10 Amazing Free Fall Survivors - Oddee.com (free fall, vesna vulovic )

[multistage]

Well, I surely love mine. My M&P is my favorite carry gun. The only gripe I have about the round is that ball ammo seems to cost as much as carry ammo. But when one considers the performance reputation, the recoil (lower than my 40) and the outstanding accuracy, I sure don't mind paying it. My favorite handgun round. I need to get a barrel for my 229.

[ks kid]

I love my 357sig. Its a great round.

[gryphon]

So, the recoil is less than with the .40 cal?

[Bigpoppa48]

So, the recoil is less than with the .40 cal?

I shoot both 357Sig and 40S&W out of my Full Size S&WM&P and I honestly can't tell the differene recoil wise as both I very controllable as far as I am concerned but if I just had to say I would say the 357Sig is just a hair snappier. You are really gonna just have to test it out for yourself to get a true feel recoil wise.

[zacii]

It's kinda funny that if I had said that about the 9mm it would have been how loathsome the 9mm is. What a different POV when it's the .45 that didn't work.

You think a .45 through the heart would have stopped him where a 9mm through the heart wouldn't?

He was pretty well shot up throughout the torso. Why would you think all the hits were in the left foot or right thumb?

When I was at Blackwater for training, they showed us a video of an actual shooting where a woman's boyfriend shot her three times in the chest with a .45 ACP. Not only did she not go down, she ran around the car screaming he's shooting me.

Evan Marshall tells of an experience he saw in person where a fleeing BG was shot in the back of the head with a .357 mag. The guy went down, but when the officers got to him, the guy sat up and said his head was hurting. Marshall said you could see the bulge of the .357 bullet just under the skin of the forehead.

I'm not pushing the .357 sig, .40 S&W, 9mm, or .45 ACP. They all work; they all fail.

Interesting. I saw a video during my ccw class, supposedly footage taken during a shootout in Salt Lake City, which sounds familiar to the one you mention. In the video that I saw, a man shot a woman point blank with a 9mm into her sternum. She also ran around their car a couple of times. She did finally collapse, after what seemed like a long time. The instructor showing us the video said that the wound was superficial, and that she was treated at the hospital and released the same day.

[AZ Hawk]

So, the recoil is less than with the .40 cal?

In my experience, yes.

[Sig35seven]

I'd agree with BigPoppa that the 357sig is a little snappier than the .40 but the difference is very small. It is also louder.

[multistage]

In my experience, yes.

Mine too. Can't lie to you about the muzzle blast though. Even though the round is, for all practical purposes, a turbocharged 9mm, it is exceptionally loud. Kinda like the original 357.

[Aaron1100us]

Just carry both calibers, thats what I do :) 16 rounds of .40 and 12 rounds of 357 SIG should do it.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk

[AZ Hawk]

Mine too. Can't lie to you about the muzzle blast though. Even though the round is, for all practical purposes, a turbocharged 9mm, it is exceptionally loud. Kinda like the original 357.

Oh yeah, it has some serious muzzle blast!

As far as the noise goes, I couldn't find the decibel chart I had before, but I know it's just a couple decibels louder than +P+ 9mm ammo.