Just some thoughts about the .357 sig vs .40 S&W

This is a discussion on Just some thoughts about the .357 sig vs .40 S&W within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just figure that the 357sig took out some of the humanity problems we may have seen in some other somewhat 'effective rounds'. Statistics can ...

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Thread: Just some thoughts about the .357 sig vs .40 S&W

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I just figure that the 357sig took out some of the humanity problems we may have seen in some other somewhat 'effective rounds'. Statistics can become whatever the reporter wants from the subject. A more powerful 9mm came with the 40S&W?....why put a 9mm in a 40S&W case and open a new door for dispute? Bottleneck cartridge feeds better?

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  3. #32
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    Or just fire both....


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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    I just figure that the 357sig took out some of the humanity problems we may have seen in some other somewhat 'effective rounds'. Statistics can become whatever the reporter wants from the subject. A more powerful 9mm came with the 40S&W?....why put a 9mm in a 40S&W case and open a new door for dispute? Bottleneck cartridge feeds better?
    Well, the claim was to duplicate the effectiveness of the .357 mag in a semi auto. I don't know if it actually achieves that, or if the .357 mag is any more of a manstopper than a .40 S&W. Perhaps what made the .357 mag look so good was the popular round of 'the day' was an anemic .38 spcl.

    But, I don't think it's ever been shown, much less proven, that the .357 mag is better than a .40 S&W, .357 sig, or 9mm +P for that matter.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gryphon View Post
    I wasn't trying to defend the 45 acp. i don't even own a .45. I was trying to point out that (after a certain point anyway) shot placement is probably more important than caliber. there are cases of people surviving a lot of things that typicaly would be fatal. As a kid at a skydiving exhibition we watched a man fall to the ground. his chute never opened. He was actualy standing when the ambulance arrived. However, this doesn't prove that falling from an airplane won't kill a man anymore than the police pumping 20 rounds into a guy proves the .45 is not fatal.
    The 20 rounds were fatal. But your post I responded to said were all the shots in the foot or thumb? I asked why you thought that. When the round involved is a 9mm, it seems to somehow prove the inefficiency of the round. When the same thing occurs and the round is a .45 it's suddenly about shot placement to the foot and thumb. Why the difference?
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  6. #35
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    I wasn't saying that the rounds were in the foot etc. I was asking if they were. I would have asked the same question if it was 20 rounds from a 380. I thought the original post was stating that it took 20 .45 rounds to bring him down, not that he simply ended up with 20 in him. I said nothing at all about the 9mm being inefficient. To the contrary, my remark regarding the 9mm was to ask why it is suddenly considered so enemic when just a few years ago it was the golden boy. It just seems like every few years a new 'golden boy" comes along and suddenly yesterdays ammo falls from favor and the consensus is that it was never any good anyway. None of this is to say that the .357 Sig isn't a great cartridge. Only that it's existance does not mean that everything that came before is no longer valid.

  7. #36
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    Just found out that H&K stopped producing any gun in .357sig. Food for thought maybe.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gryphon View Post
    I wasn't saying that the rounds were in the foot etc. I was asking if they were. I would have asked the same question if it was 20 rounds from a 380. I thought the original post was stating that it took 20 .45 rounds to bring him down, not that he simply ended up with 20 in him. I said nothing at all about the 9mm being inefficient. To the contrary, my remark regarding the 9mm was to ask why it is suddenly considered so enemic when just a few years ago it was the golden boy.
    Good clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by gryphon View Post
    ...It just seems like every few years a new 'golden boy" comes along and suddenly yesterdays ammo falls from favor and the consensus is that it was never any good anyway. None of this is to say that the .357 Sig isn't a great cartridge. Only that it's existence does not mean that everything that came before is no longer valid.
    I agree 100%. But it also doesn't mean a newer caliber isn't a better fight stopper either. Hey, I'm a big believer in the 9mm. I shot some 10,000 of them in 2011 and 1600 so far this year. But to be candid, every time I look at a big ol .45 beside a 9mm, it just baffles my mind that there is purportedly no difference in performance.

    As for the .357 sig, it seems to be powerful. I'm not sure what 'powerful' means, but I've read a lot of findings that indicate there's something to the .357 sig. E.g. the Ammo Lab where the 10mm and .357 sig were the only rounds to crack the plates; a marked difference in the way a .357 sig dispatched a deer(s) compared to a .40 S&W.

    But yeah, it does seem like the 'new' round some how nullifies the effectiveness of previous rounds. Although, that's pretty much what happened with the .357 mag when it started replacing the .38 spcl.
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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajgranda View Post
    Just found out that H&K stopped producing any gun in .357sig. Food for thought maybe.
    Hmmm! That is interesting! Where did you find that info?
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  10. #39
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    They did move the USP compact in .357 to special order only. I have one and I love it. I did buy a .40 barrel in case the .357 ever gets hard to find around here.
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  11. #40
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    My opinion and analogy:

    .357Sig = A knockout hit from Mike Tyson in his prime, super fast and powerful.
    .45acp = A knockout punch from the older and wiser George Foreman, slow, heavy, and powerful.


    Both will knock you down and out cold !!! God Bless
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gryphon View Post
    Have the bad guys improved so much that it now takes as many as 20 rounds from the venerable .45 acp to bring one down? A shot to the head from a .40cal slug won't even faze them. During WWII the 9mm had enough power to take quite a few lives. But later, as bad guys became immune to it (as they had the .38 special) it became necessary to to upsize and it now takes half a box of ammo to put one down! Or could the real cause be poor marksmanship. It sounds a lot like the sloppy carpenter blaming the hammer. Those 20 45 acp rounds, were they through the heart? Or was he shot in the left foot, right thumb, etc.
    ^So True^

    There seems to be only two places that .40S&W round is not good enough
    1.)On the internet when compared to a .357sig
    2.)On the internet when compared to a .45ACP

    Ask all the LEO's and CCer's that have used a .40S&W to save a life. I'm sure it worked then....

    This debate on the .357sig is silly.... test all you want. Shot placement wins... and I'll take a hit from a .22cal in the face over a gut shot with a .357sig any day on an attacker.

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
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  13. #42
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    My research lead me to select 40 S&W and that is what I carry. The 357Sig is a little hotter & if you need to shoot into/through cars, walls etc. it penetrates better. However, it has a sharper recoil & is a little harder to get back on target for the second round. .... Always double tap.

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    ^So True^

    There seems to be only two places that .40S&W round is not good enough
    1.)On the internet when compared to a .357sig
    2.)On the internet when compared to a .45ACP

    Ask all the LEO's and CCer's that have used a .40S&W to save a life. I'm sure it worked then....

    This debate on the .357sig is silly.... test all you want. Shot placement wins... and I'll take a hit from a .22cal in the face over a gut shot with a .357sig any day on an attacker.

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
    Agreed.
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  15. #44
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    I'm a big believer in Muzzle Energy.

    Other than the 357SIG - Name me one semiauto handgun caliber that gives you 500 foot pounds of energy from a 4" barrel - and that can be found

    at Walmart.
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  16. #45
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    So 357 sig is the caliber of choice for a SD round? I have been thinking of getting one for my next pistol. I have a 40 cal glock now...
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