Just some thoughts about the .357 sig vs .40 S&W - Page 4

Just some thoughts about the .357 sig vs .40 S&W

This is a discussion on Just some thoughts about the .357 sig vs .40 S&W within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wow, I was all set to buy a SR40c to go with my SR9c Ruger. Now I don't know. Is the Sig. that much better? ...

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Thread: Just some thoughts about the .357 sig vs .40 S&W

  1. #46
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    Wow, I was all set to buy a SR40c to go with my SR9c Ruger. Now I don't know. Is the Sig. that much better? I agree that shot placement is the key to stopping the BGs. Don't think I would want to be shot with my 9mm+P JHPs. Great discussion, thanks everyone!


  2. #47
    Member Array dooga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1100us View Post
    Just carry both calibers, thats what I do :) 16 rounds of .40 and 12 rounds of 357 SIG should do it.
    How do you do that? Run the .357 SIG through your .40 S&W barrel?

    (PS: I have a G23 and do know I can get a Glock 32's barrel and run the .357 SIG)
    Gen 1 G17, Gen 3 G23, Gen 4 G26, 870P, MkIII 678, 10/22 Carbine

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dooga View Post
    How do you do that? Run the .357 SIG through your .40 S&W barrel?
    a 357 is a necked down 40 case with a 9mm bullet

    many models of 40, glock and sig for example, if you buy a 40 the 357 dropin bbl will fit
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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    my carry load in my Glock 32 and Glock 33.......Hornady .357 SIG 147gr XTP.....great penetration with the heavier bullet.

    .357 SIG Hornady XTP 147 gr AMMO test - YouTube
    Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.

  5. #50
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    I'll tell you what. Get a 357 SIG (or a 9, or a 40, or a 45). Learn how to run it. Well. Your 357 SIG (or 9, or 40, or 45) will serve you well.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1100us View Post
    Just carry both calibers, thats what I do :) 16 rounds of .40 and 12 rounds of 357 SIG should do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by imthduke View Post
    Or just fire both....
    Just be careful about carrying both cartridges and trying to put one through the wrong-sized barrel.

    Zero defect: I don't allow myself to carry both cartridges - not even to the range. When the 357 sig barrel is in the frame, I clear all mags in the bag (and of course the mag well) and all .40 cartridges stay home. And vice versa.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    ^So True^

    There seems to be only two places that .40S&W round is not good enough
    1.)On the internet when compared to a .357sig
    2.)On the internet when compared to a .45ACP
    That's not true! Did you not read what the THP officer said they experienced? That wasn't internet at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    ...Ask all the LEO's and CCer's that have used a .40S&W to save a life. I'm sure it worked then....
    Maybe, maybe not. There have been know failures to stop in all calibers. And the same could be claimed for .22s. It doesn't prove that one round is as good as another at stopping a fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    ...This debate on the .357sig is silly.... test all you want. Shot placement wins... and I'll take a hit from a .22cal in the face over a gut shot with a .357sig any day on an attacker.
    First, I don't see we're debating anything - we're discussing and sharing information. The particular info in the op came from a state trooper, not the internet.

    Just because a .357 Sig hits the gun, doesn't mean that isn't a fight stopper hit - it could be devastating.

    And, It's no where near that simple as simply placement - the round does matter. E.g. If shot placement wins, why not carry a .22LR? I'm not saying placement isn't important, but to say placement is everything is misleading. Let's compare apples to apples. Would you rather take a hit in the face from a .22LR or a 9mm? If placement wins, there should be no difference in results. If placement plus bullet performance wins then there should be a huge difference - as we know there is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    ...Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
    But don't you think the vast majority of us could shoot a .22 better and faster than a larger caliber? Just because we can hit better doesn't imply we should carry it as a SD round.

    There's a lot more to this than accuracy and placement. Why did we go from .38 spcl to .357 mag? Why does most of LE choose the .40 over the 9mm, I''m quite sure then could shoot a 9mm more accurately and could carry more ammo too. If only accuracy counts, why would they just not carry a .22 caliber? If only accuracy counts why do a lot of people think the .223 is marginal as a battle round?
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  8. #53
    Member Array Eichorn's Avatar
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    Some folk get all hot and bothered over muzzle velocity, but bullet weight is also a factor in penetration.
    I carry .40 because I feel it has a good balance of muzzle velocity, bullet weight and caliber size. That said, I question whether there is a significant difference between the popular carry cartridges.

    The bottom line is that they are all underpowered.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
    Accuracy doesn't always win. I believe that it's first priority, but once the shot leaves our pistol, we have no control over it.

    In the Miami shoot-out, FBI agent Dove hit BG Platt, with a perfectly placed shot. But, the bullet failed to penetrate. So accuracy doesn't always win.

    To add more fuel to the fire, it was a 9mm that failed, which set in motion the FBI's quest for a better pistol/caliber. Which eventually gave birth to the .40
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Where did you get the info that insures us that accuracy always wins?
    Cornfused?

    An example:
    1. 3 GGs fired 107 rounds of 40 S & W 180gr and .223 mouse gun** 55gr & 72gr. (** Viet Nam Vet experience!)
    2. The BG was shot hit 17 times while reloading from a box of loose ammo and was able to fire 26 rounds of 45 ACP. Of the 17 hits, 6 were with 40 S & W.
    3. Distance of 20 feet?
    4. This is the second shooting that the PD has experienced where they had to shoot a subject in excess
    of ten times with .40 S&W ammo to incapacitate or kill. There was another incident where a subject
    was shot inside of his vehicle. He was struck approximately ten times, all the while continuing to
    fire at officers. He was eventually killed after suffering a shot to the back of his head. In this same
    incident, the back of the subject's seat was struck multiple times, the .40 S&W rounds never
    penetrated through the seat.........



    NOW YOU CAN'T TELL ME A HEAD SHOT WOULD NOT HAVE STOP THIS GUN FIGHT AT ONE ROUND OF GG'S AMMO!

    PLEASE NOTE I WOULD NEVER SHOOT TO KILL; ONLY TO STOP THE BG!
    Attached Files


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  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Accuracy doesn't always win. I believe that it's first priority, but once the shot leaves our pistol, we have no control over it.

    In the Miami shoot-out, FBI agent Dove hit BG Platt, with a perfectly placed shot. But, the bullet failed to penetrate. So accuracy doesn't always win.

    To add more fuel to the fire, it was a 9mm that failed, which set in motion the FBI's quest for a better pistol/caliber. Which eventually gave birth to the .40
    This is what's been published about Dove's hit on Platt:

    Source One:

    As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Dove's 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. The autopsy found Platt’s right lung was collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platt’s eventual death.

    Source Two:

    Platt climbed out a car window and advanced on the agents, while continuing to fire. As he did so, he was struck by two 9 mm rounds, one from agent Jerry Dove, and the other from Agent Ron Risner, who along with agent Gilbert Orrantia, was shooting from a position of cover about five car lengths away. One round hit Platt underneath the armpit, while the other cut into his lung. The coroner who later examined Platt determined the lung shot was a fatal wound that would have eventually killed him even if he had received immediate medical treatment, but it did not stop him and he continued fighting with his rifle and a revolver, and caused agents more injuries, including a shot to the neck which left agent McNeill paralyzed. Another shot struck agent Dove's pistol, rendering it inoperative.

    Maybe I missed something?

    As for the 10mm Short, aka 40 S & W, was developed after the FBI found the 10mm had too much recoil and yes indeed this shootout was the FBI's epiphany that they needed to update their weaponary! 


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  12. #57
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    This has been a fun read. Lots of good points.

    I have 9mm, 40, 357 sig, .44 and they will all do the job. All I need is a 45 for my collection will be complete and I will never feel under gunned when I have my 9 on me. There are so many factors that play into what works best....which caliber, placement, bullet...that it comes down to a couple of things that only you as the end user can define. What is the largest caliber that I can shoot fast and accurately? Dont get caught up in the caliber battle.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post

    Maybe I missed something?
    I don't think that you've missed anything.

    Dove hit Platt with a well placed shot; his placement was perfect, given the situation.

    It wasn't the lack of accuracy that got Dove killed, it was the lack of penetration.

    I am merely stating that to say accuracy always wins, isn't entirely accurate.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    As for the 10mm Short, aka 40 S & W, was developed after the FBI found the 10mm had too much recoil and yes indeed this shootout was the FBI's epiphany that they needed to update their weaponary! 
    For what it's worth, the problem wasn't the 9x19mm caliber, the problem was the ammunition they used. (115 gr. Winchester Silvertip).
    zacii likes this.
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  15. #60
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    For what it's worth, the problem wasn't the 9x19mm caliber, the problem was the ammunition they used. (115 gr. Winchester Silvertip).


    and down the road will be more events that shine light on other shortcomings of cal x.

    so the debate continues
    ------------
    better an individual should find the gun(s) that fit them and practice to be as good as they can with them.

    there will always be situations where someones choice did not fill the needs as well as if they had a 'x' instead
    and 'y' or 'z' in slightly different circumstances.

    ...even Zorg's gun failed in the end.
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