The G22 Gen 4 is one of the best things I’ve done – but not what you’re thinking…

This is a discussion on The G22 Gen 4 is one of the best things I’ve done – but not what you’re thinking… within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by DustyBottoms No I did read the thread. You are defending Glock,especially at the end, which made me wonder why the hell you ...

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Thread: The G22 Gen 4 is one of the best things I’ve done – but not what you’re thinking…

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyBottoms View Post
    No I did read the thread. You are defending Glock,especially at the end, which made me wonder why the hell you posted it in the first place...

    My point, and probably 21bubba's as well, is that before getting all excited and becoming another internet "boy who cried wolf", you could just relax and not post.
    The reason I posted it was because Glock problems had been going en mass for months and months. I was aware of PDs that couldn't get gen 4s to work. Shortly before I posted my first thread, I read where a PD pulled their Glocks from service because of reliability problems.

    There were still posts all over the internet gun boards reporting problems with Glocks both gen 3 and gen 4s. I posted the thread as a 'current status' as a heads up for people that might be considering a Glock at that time. And at the time I posted, there was every reason to believe that gen 4s were still problematic and would be for some time to come. In fact, a guy just bought one recently and guess what? He's having problems with it.

    Shortly after the first thread, there seemed to be signs of a turn-around. Still postings of problematic Glocks, but not as many. So, I'm thinking wow after months and months of problems, Glock seems to have got this thing turned around. So I posted an optimistic thread that was as much hope as fact that Glock at least had the fixes in place. Not all problems were resolved yet, but apparently Glock had the fixes. I though all would be glad to here some optimistic reports, so I may have posted the second post a bit prematurely but I was optimistic that it was just a matter of time now.

    I didn't get excited about anything, I posted what I saw as the current status and it was pretty accurate and pretty tame compared to contemporary posting regarding the gen 4.

    I didn't cry wolf. I stated reflected sentiment at that time. I didn't tell anyone not to buy a Glock, I simply made them aware there was a QC problem that had been going on for months and to that point now all had been resolved.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    The better question is why do you even care, and/or why is this a big deal?
    Coming from a guy who would post about 10 counter posts if it were not Glock in which he had a revalation towards!
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Coming from a guy who would post about 10 counter posts if it were not Glock in which he had a revaluation towards!
    And what proof do you have of that?

    It's 100% more likely that I wouldn't have cared since it wouldn't apply to me.

    And isn't it usually you that posts about 10 counter posts anytime someone posts about Glocks?
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    I totally agree with this statement we all learn and progress, including myself. I think the main question a few folks have, is that these posts look a little odd with regards to timelines and the quick history of "ship jumping" in previous posts. i.e Sig P250, The All World Defense of Kimber Mimber etc.....

    I think some of this is learning with a mixture of money and time on Mr. Tangle's hands... LOL..... Last time I checked, there is nothing wrong with that. I am curious to what he stumbles onto next week.
    I appreciate that Hawk but I didn't jump ship, I simply stated the status of the ship as it appeared at that time. When I saw it change and in spite of all the continued negative posts all over the internet about Glock's problems, I reported accurately that the ship's status has changed and quicker than perhaps we anticipated.

    I'm a little confused myself. I post a lot of things about a lot of guns and that seems to be received as ship jumping, changing allegiance, etc. I guess I don't understand why it's a problem for some that I find quality in a number of different firearms. That seems like a positive thing to me.

    Here we are, in a thread I thought would be helpful in bringing to our attention to be mindful of our shooting techniques and that error can creep in. So what does it turn into. A discussion of two other threads in this thread, by two posters that admittedly are confused - and I agree - they are.

    But I can certainly fix the confusion. How about I don't post any more gun reviews; I'm tired of arguing, in the wrong thread about trivia.
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  6. #35
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    How about I don't post any more gun reviews; I'm tired of arguing, in the wrong thread about trivia.
    Negative. dont let some "slip" keep you from it.

    Keep posting...I for one, really enjoy them.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Negative. dont let some "slip" keep you from it.

    Keep posting...I for one, really enjoy them.
    That means a lot, I appreciate that. Will do.
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  8. #37
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    Ok, guys due to several PMs, I'm going to reopen the thread, but please guys, understand this is not a thread about other threads or the gen 4 Glocks, it's about realizing how technique can slip over time. With lower recoiling calibers, it may not be as noticeable; but declines in technique can show up dramatically with heavier recoiling calibers.
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    My friend just bought a GEN4 G23 and I have a G23 and we took them out to the range this week past. Rand 400 rounds though the two combined and not one jam /stove pipe/ FTF. As far as the slappy talk only weak wristed people say that, all guns recoil so learn to manage the recoil. I love my glock and it has to be one of the best shooting guns I have owned.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    You pretty much nailed it. It was basically too much relaxation. That's pretty much what Ernst related to me as well. He said something to the effect that the recoil on a 9mm is so tame that you can get by with a lot that you can't on heavier recoiling rounds.

    My grip wasn't quite right, the force in my hands wasn't quite right, and the rigidity wasn't there. Also, I had drifted out of my natural position a bit and the gun wasn't coming back from recoil in alignment like it should. All kind of minor things, but they all seem to go together, i.e. you start doing one, you start doing the others too - maybe there's a mental link or something.
    Tangle,
    Thanks for opening the thread back up; this has piqued my interest....
    When you say that "the force in my hands wasn't quite right" and "the rigidity wasn't there" I'm taking that to mean that 1) the squeezing pressure between your palms on the grip was too much/too little/misplaced and 2) that the lack of rigidity wasnt transferring the energy rearward and instead the recoil was pushing the weapon up/left/right and off target requiring more recovery time for the follow up shot.
    Am I off here? I apologize if I'm beating the proverbial dead horse I'm just trying to pin down exactly what you were/weren't doing because after thinking on this I think I may be inadvertently doing the same things and I want to fix them.

    -Russell
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowbait View Post
    Tangle,
    Thanks for opening the thread back up; this has piqued my interest....
    When you say that "the force in my hands wasn't quite right" and "the rigidity wasn't there" I'm taking that to mean that 1) the squeezing pressure between your palms on the grip was too much/too little/misplaced and 2) that the lack of rigidity wasnt transferring the energy rearward and instead the recoil was pushing the weapon up/left/right and off target requiring more recovery time for the follow up shot.
    Am I off here? I apologize if I'm beating the proverbial dead horse I'm just trying to pin down exactly what you were/weren't doing because after thinking on this I think I may be inadvertently doing the same things and I want to fix them.

    -Russell
    No problem at all Russell, I'm glad you're interested!

    It was basically the things you mentioned and I'll detail each one, but here's more specific: My grip was to light; my arms were not tense enough, and my arms were not extended quite enough. If one is just shooting, or shooting low recoil calibers, none of that is all that significant. But if one wants to shoot both accurately and fast, especially with heavier recoiling calibers, technique becomes much more important.

    The grip:
    There are several schools of thought about grip pressure. Some advocate a death grip while others advocate a firm grip. I'm of the latter persuasion. As Todd Jarrett puts it, the way you'd grip a ball bat to hit a home run. Also, the pressure applied by your hands should be about 60% from the support hand and 40% from the shooting hand and it should be a firm grip like Todd described. Splitting up the grip pressure this way helps to isolate the trigger finger so it can work independently of the rest of the hand.

    The arms need to be extended but don't lock the elbows but do tense the arm muscles, but again don't over do it or you'll find your arms in a tremor.

    I shoot enough to realize when things don't look right or feel right. When I started shooting the G22, it wasn't coming back on target sharply, and it wasn't re-aligning like it should. It was moving way too much. The things Ernst Langdon had shared with me quickly came to mind - I had let my technique drift.

    I first made sure my feet, hips, and shoulders were positioned to give me my natural, sight aligned position. Had to make an adjustment there. Then it was just a matter of firing some shots with all the other adjustments, grip, extension, and arm tension and evaluating what was happening. The adjustments were immediately obvious. My first indicator was the sights were re-aligning naturally from recoil. Next, the gun wasn't moving as much from recoil and was coming back on target sharply and quickly.

    Saturday I applied my 're-conditioned' technique to my G17 Gen 4. This is rapid fire at a 3 inch orange stick-on at 5 yds and this was some fast shooting, a few were almost double taps speed (although I'm not a fan of double taps at all). 25 shots:

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  12. #41
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    It appears to me that Tangle is no slouch when it comes to shooting.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    It appears to me that Tangle is no slouch when it comes to shooting.
    I very much agree.

    Tangle, thanks that clears it up quite a bit, I appreciate your time and knowledge. Take care.
    “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” --George Washington

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