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S&W .38 Body Guard. Harmless quirk, or real problem.

25K views 32 replies 20 participants last post by  cocojo 
#1 ·
Noticed something while cleaning the BG revolver. After cleaning it up and closing the cylinder and squeezing the trigger and cycling the cylinder I noticed that the first trigger pull did not advance the rotation to the next chamber. :blink: I tried the process again. Normal rotation of the cylinder; well normal like a "Colt" anyway. (The cylinder on the BG rotates CW and not CCW). Anyway, I tried it several more times and the same thing, everything normal. Then one more time of opening and closing the cylinder, and the thing does it again, but this time I pull the trigger again and it advances to the next chamber and so on for a few more trigger pulls. I open the cylinder up and put my finger over the firing pin and squeeze the trigger, the sting is quite unmistakeable, it's working just fine.. I did this several times with the same result. Which brings me to my question.

If ya load the revolver up and it closes on a live round, but when you squeeze the trigger the cylinder doesn't rotate, although it does fire the round already chambered, would that bother you? Again, like I said, it never fails to rotate the cylinder on the second trigger pull, and to the best of my knowledge, it still strikes the the firing pin and would fire the round in the chamber at the time of the trigger pull.

I've put 250 rounds through it in the last week and it never had a light strike or misfire, yet I was easily able to mimic the static cylinder several times in dry fire. I guess my biggest question/concern on it is this. The couple of searches I found on anything remotely similar to it where folks called S&W. The folks were told it was normal for it to work that way. :ziplip:

Personally, I can get passed the static cylinder on trigger pull, provided it does fire the round, but it's the thought that what if it fails to strike the firing pin too and nothing happens. Sure would hang to look like "Barney Fife" during a gunfight. :aargh4:

I really like this revolver and I hope it doesn't need a trip back to the mother ship. It's a nice light little powerhouse of a pocket option, but for now, it sits in the safe until I can get some more facts on the situation.

I guess I'll move back to my 638 for that role; no big deal cause I put a laser on that sucker too..:image035:

Your thoughts, are welcome... :bier:
 
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#3 ·
That does not sound like normal operation to me. I would send the revolver in for service.
 
#4 ·
I tried to duplicate your problem with a brand new BG38. I have not even had the chance to fire it yet. After several attempts I was able to duplicate your problem but then quickly noticed that the cylinder was not completely latched. Not the gun's fault, I just closed the cylinder softly trying to test your issue. I'll bet the advancing starr wheel is not fully engaging the cylinder. Just my .02 FWIW.
 
#6 ·
I tried to duplicate your problem with a brand new BG38. I have not even had the chance to fire it yet. After several attempts I was able to duplicate your problem but then quickly noticed that the cylinder was not completely latched. Not the gun's fault, I just closed the cylinder softly trying to test your issue. I'll bet the advancing starr wheel is not fully engaging the cylinder. Just my .02 FWIW.
Yup, I noticed that too.. However, none of mine were a result of poor lockup. I took that in to account during my thirty minute assessment of the testing. Mine will still do it if I fully close it and actually try to twist the cylinder to make sure it's got a good lockup. I wish it was only that...
 
#7 ·
Noticed something while cleaning the BG revolver. After cleaning it up and closing the cylinder and squeezing the trigger and cycling the cylinder I noticed that the first trigger pull did not advance the rotation to the next chamber. :blink: I tried the process again. Normal rotation of the cylinder; well normal like a "Colt" anyway. (The cylinder on the BG rotates CW and not CCW). Anyway, I tried it several more times and the same thing, everything normal. Then one more time of opening and closing the cylinder, and the thing does it again, but this time I pull the trigger again and it advances to the next chamber and so on for a few more trigger pulls.
Not able to duplicate.

If ya load the revolver up and it closes on a live round, but when you squeeze the trigger the cylinder doesn't rotate, although it does fire the round already chambered, would that bother you?
Very much. Especially with S&W's customer service reputation, I'd immediately call for RMA and expect complete satisfaction.
I've put 250 rounds through it in the last week and it never had a light strike or misfire, yet I was easily able to mimic the static cylinder several times in dry fire. I guess my biggest question/concern on it is this. The couple of searches I found on anything remotely similar to it where folks called S&W. The folks were told it was normal for it to work that way. :ziplip:

Personally, I can get passed the static cylinder on trigger pull, provided it does fire the round, but it's the thought that what if it fails to strike the firing pin too and nothing happens. Sure would hang to look like "Barney Fife" during a gunfight. :aargh4:

I really like this revolver and I hope it doesn't need a trip back to the mother ship. It's a nice light little powerhouse of a pocket option, but for now, it sits in the safe until I can get some more facts on the situation.
I'm not a revolverologist, but even for dry fire, let us know if S&W says, "Oh, that's how it's suppossed to work." :22a::loopy::hand1:
 
#8 ·
OK try this...
It looks like the bolt is engaging your cylinder as you mentioned earlier, but see if the cylinder latch comes back to locked position with the cylinder fully closed. If forward the star will not engage the cylinder. This thing is driving me crazy to duplicate your problem on my gun, but I'm still advocating the star wheel isn't engaged properly.
 
#9 ·
My 642 does that once in awhile... it's most likely because the cylinder wasn't times into the groove yet (I have no idea what the technical term is). For instance I ALWAYS rotate mine until it locks after every time I open the cylinder... if I don't it will sometimes be in between the chambers and either won't rotate fully or sometimes not at all (because it doesn't have to in either case). Give it a try and try to find that sweet spot... you might be surprised how frequently you can duplicate it.
 
#12 ·
My Bodyguard did the same thing first time I took it to the range. On the first trigger pull nothing happened. Every trigger pull after that it would fire normally. Tried to duplicate it at home and was able to if I didn't close the cylinder firmly. I found the best was to snap it shut with my thumb not just until the cylinder clicked but you also have to let the cylinder rotate until you hear it click. Had no more failures doing it that way. It must need that little extra rotation to fully engage the star wheel.
 
#15 ·
I've never had any problems with mine at the range. I've never dry-fired it, though. My guess is that once you close the cylinder, you need to turn it slightly until it clicks fully into place.

I've got to rush off to work right now or I'd see if I could duplicate your problem. Maybe tonight if I remember....
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the insight guys, but I'd like to point out one small variable that keeps getting touched on. I'm no "Matt Dillon" or what not with a revolver, but I have been carrying and using one for some time now. Every time I had this happen, I made sure there was a good and complete lockup of the cylinder and the star that rotates the cylinder before I ever pulled the trigger. In fact, not once could I mimic the action without a complete and positive closure. I was actually wondering if it has something to do with the timing of the revolver because it will not do it every time but I could get it to do it maybe every tenth or eleventh time I would open and close the cylinder. What's crazy is, I have a minimum of 250 rounds and not a single misfire or dead trigger pull, so whatever the problem is, it doesn't seem to hinder the operation to the point of a failure, but it sure makes me wonder if it's a known issue, or if it's something that happens by design. I sent S&W a detailed email , but haven't heard anything back yet.

Again, my biggest concern with this thing is this. It has always fired from day one. After 250 rounds DR with it I'm fairly sure it had to have happened a couple of times at the range too, but I just didn't notice it. After I noticed it happening, every time I would pull the trigger again and again and the cylinder would advance to the next chamber. When it happens, so far it only happens once and then it advances to the next chamber on the next trigger pull. If the pistol is loaded, it would be sitting on a a live round, so the static cylinder is a none issue except if it somehow does not strike the firing pin along with failing to rotate the cylinder; which is what really bothers me. The whole trigger assembly is so much different than any of my other J frames that I can't get a clear picture of how the hammer strike is produced in the sequence of the trigger pull. I've been all in the internal workings of my J frames when I removed the internal locks, but this thing is totally different. I've searched the web for information, but have come up short on any specifications for trigger assembly on the BG trigger.

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts feel free to pass um on, it's much appreciated.
 
#17 ·
Hey GBK - The only thing I can suggest is that you call S&W. These things are typically better handled live on the phone, rather than back-and-forth via email.

Good luck. And hey, if anything, this makes you more tolerant of any "quirks" your semi-autos might have! :biggrin2:
 
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#18 ·
Hey GBK - The only thing I can suggest is that you call S&W. These things are typically better handled live on the phone, rather than back-and-forth via email.

Good luck. And hey, if anything, this makes you more tolerant of any "quirks" your semi-autos might have! :biggrin2:
This is true..
 
#19 ·
trigger pull did not advance the rotation to the next chamber
I observed this "feature" on the one and only Bodyguard .38 I fondled at Sportsman's Warehouse when they first hit the market. That, along with the excessive endshake and cylinder slop, pretty much ended my interest in the new platform...
 
#20 ·
What happens if you close the cylinder but position it between lock-up positions? Does it advance to the next cylinder then or drop the firing pin between cylinders? My concern woudl be how does the revolver know to advance or not advance? If the thing fires every time the trigger is pulled regardless of the starting position of the cylinder, then I would not be concerned about it. For the life of me, for it to have been designed that way seems like a feat of over-engineering to solve something that wasn't a problem. It seems the simpler the mechanics the more reliable it would be. Advancing the cylinder every time seems like much simpler mechanics, but obviously not a necessary function on a fully loaded revolver. IF they designed it that way, what was the reason? If it fires every time, then what's the harm? If it was worrisome to me, I'd get a 442 and be done with it.
 
#21 ·
(1)What happens if you close the cylinder but position it between lock-up positions? Does it advance to the next cylinder then or drop the firing pin between cylinders? (2)My concern woudl be how does the revolver know to advance or not advance? (3) If the thing fires every time the trigger is pulled regardless of the starting position of the cylinder, then I would not be concerned about it. For the life of me, for it to have been designed that way seems like a feat of over-engineering to solve something that wasn't a problem. It seems the simpler the mechanics the more reliable it would be. Advancing the cylinder every time seems like much simpler mechanics, but obviously not a necessary function on a fully loaded revolver. IF they designed it that way, what was the reason? If it fires every time, then what's the harm? If it was worrisome to me, I'd get a 442 and be done with it.
(1) Yes, if I purposefully position the cylinder in between the cycle when I close it, it cycles to the next chamber every time. I can only guess if the firing pin is being struck, but as I stated in my post; it has not had a misfire or dead trigger pull outa 250 rounds DR with it. I'm confident that during those 250 rounds that the thing has done it a time or two at least and I just didn't notice it.
(2) Exactly! That's what I was thinking... How in the heck does it know, or does it know and it's actually a malfunction. ??
(3) Yep, that's sorta the approach I'm taking with it. I haven't heard back for S&W yet, but like 10thmnt suggested, I should just place a call to um and see what they have to say about it.

I'm only really concerned about the firing pin function during the event. As long as it strikes the firing pin on every trigger pull and it only fails to rotate the cylinder the one time, I could consider the firearm reliable, but not being able to find out if it functions that way by design kinda bugs me... This thing really is a neat gun, and the trigger is a good deal better than a stock J Frame so I'm not ready to give up on it just yet. Meanwhile I still have my other J frames to rely on so no big deal there. Now that you mention it though, I kinda wish I would have just went with the 442 or a 642. My 638 is my favorite J frame anyway, but I really like the advantage of the top mounted laser on this BG. I've never shot such tight groups from a snub in my life, even when my eyes were much younger.:wink: I put a "LaserLyte" style laser on my 638, but I prefer the top mount version for longer range accuracy.
 
#22 ·
A properly timed revolver needs no assistance in locking the cylinder after closing it. It should automatically align the charge hole with each DA trigger stroke, regardless of cylinder position upon closing.
 
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#24 ·
This happened to me twice on my first trip to the range with my Bodyguard. On the first trigger pull nothing happens. On the second trigger pull and each one there after the gun fires normally.

There is a slightly raised area on the back of the cylinder with slots cut into it to accept the star wheel. It is possible to close the cylinder and have the star wheel land on this raised material and not fall into the slot. If this happens the cylinder is free to move. You can rotate the cylinder slightly and you will hear a click when the star wheel engages.

I solved it by pushing the cylinder closed sharply with my thumb. You will hear a click when the cylinder seats and your thumb will naturally rotate the cylinder until the star wheel engages. Like I said in an earlier post I was able to duplicate this at home so it's not my imagination.

IF THE CYLINDER IS ENGAGED PROPERLY IT WILL NOT ROTATE WITHOUT PULLING THE TRIGGER. It's pretty important to check this every time you load the weapon for defensive carry. In an SD situation it would be areal bummer to pull the trigger and have nothing happen.

I don't know if you would call this a defect in design or a quirk, but it is one of the reasons I'll be selling my Bodyguard. I won't let my wife carry this for SD.
 
#26 ·
Same here.... I am carrying my S&W 638 BG along with my M&P9c for now. I'll probably hang on to the new BG, but it'll join all the other safe queens in the safe for now until I decide what to do with the thing. I would send it to S&W, but I'm sure I'll hear the same thing that some of the reports I read about where Smith says "that's normal, and there's nothing wrong with it".:blink:

Serves me right for straying from the old school "KISS" revolver system. Thankfully I have plenty of other options to choose from. It's a real shame too, I really wanted to like this revolver..... :frown:
 
#28 ·
I ended up buying my wife a Bersa thunder 380cc. She absolutly loves the gun.

The Bodyguard is on it's way back to S&W. The laser crapped out before the gun was even fired. The laser is a nice gimmick, but S&W poorly implemented it. It's too difficult to turn it on to use it in an SD situation. It's a shame too because I really liked the gun and I think the laser could be very useful in low light. My wife loved the way it fit her hand. The gun also has a pretty brutal recoil. It's not S&W fault imho. I think any extremely light weight 38 is going to let you know it's there. I do think S&W could have provided a better padded grip to help reduce the problem.The cylinder problem being discussed is simply a deal breaker for me. The Bodyguard is going to find a new home.
 
#29 ·
I've never had a S&W revolver that would not go bang every time I pulled the trigger, but I've only owned and carried on duty an early Mod 66 and a Mod 27. It did not matter where the cylinder lock ended up upon closing it after a reload because as soon as I pulled the trigger it would advance it to lock up and fire. Like you are doing I would send it back to S&W. S&W or not, if that is a "live with it quirk" I would not carry it.
 
#30 ·
Nope, not carrying it at all... I have plenty of other guns for carry so biggie, just disappointed with the thing cause I really liked it... I'll end up sending it back to S&W and see what the deal is with it. Who knows, maybe I can getum to fix what ever the problem is, or even replace it with a newer revv. Either way, it's a safe queen now. :wink:
 
#31 ·
Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it. The J-frame has got to be one of the top selling guns of all time. It is my understanding that when they designed the new Bodyguard they changed the cylinder drive. Right now I think they kind of crapped in their own mess kit. Looks like all they did was take a gun that was legendary for it's reliability and gave it a "quirk".
 
#32 ·
Yep, you will have problems with this gun. Save your money and buy something else. Even a new shooter will have problems with it failing to advance the cylinder. Sent mine back to Smith twice and they keep saying that nothing is wrong with it. When I get a chance to do a youtube video of what a POS this gun is the world will know buy the 642 or a Ruger LCR!
 
#33 ·
Your gun is not broken and doesn't need to go back to the factory. All revolvers must have their cylinder rachets align and mate with each other. Most revolver have a pawl indexing the cylinder when the user forgets to turn the cylinder just a bit when closing the gun up. The bodyguard does not have this pawl, so if the user doesn't rotate the cylinder a bit when closing this is the result. Revolver users should close the cylinder and rotate the cylinder until it locks or clicks into position on all revolvers but it's a must do on the new bodyguard because of the lacking of the pawl. Just close and turn until lock up and your revolver will work just fine.
 
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