Ok, guys somebody talk to me about the .357 sig.... - Page 4

Ok, guys somebody talk to me about the .357 sig....

This is a discussion on Ok, guys somebody talk to me about the .357 sig.... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm Another thought I have regarding the 357 Sig, is that ballistically, it is probably a great stopper, and this has been ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Another thought I have regarding the 357 Sig, is that ballistically, it is probably a great stopper, and this has been proven in the field of the LEAs who use it.
    See, that's the buzz I'm getting too - FTF with one LEO.

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    ...It really cannot be compared to the 10mm in any way, other than it is chambered in guns with a smaller frame, thus easier to conceal and grip.
    I'm not sure what ballistics you have in mind but here's the Corbon SD specs for the 10mm

    SD10135/20 10mm Auto 135gr JHP 1400fps/588ftlbs 4.6
    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末
    SD10150/20 10mm Auto 150gr JHP 1325fps/585ftlbs 4.6
    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末
    SD10165/20 10mm Auto 165gr JHP 1250fps/573ftlbs 4.6
    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末

    and here's the Corbon SD specs for the .357 Sig

    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末
    SD357SIG125/20 357 Sig 125gr JHP 1425fps/564ftlbs 4.0
    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末
    SD357SIG115/20 357 Sig 115gr JHP 1500fps/575ftlbs 4.0
    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末

    The energy difference between the 135 gn 10mm and the 125 gn .357 Sig is only 4.3%. The momentum difference is only 6% difference. And that's comparing the best of the 10mm to the second best .357 sig. If we compare the best .357 sig to the best 10mm there's only an energy difference of 2.3%.

    And notice the test barrel for the 10mm is 0.6" longer than the test barrel of the .357 sig.

    Maybe somebody loads the 10mm hotter.

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    ...Another thought I have is that while it's a hot proven load, it's uses are limited to defensive carry or LE. Although it's a hot load, the light weight bullet would not be a first choice against anything larger than puma or canine type animals if someone were looking for versatility in a cartridge/handgun combo.

    In this light, the 40 or 45 would be the more logical choices.
    Perhaps, but I've read of guys hunting with the .357 sig and very pleased with it. We have to realize, the Corbon 125 gn .357 sig is within 25 fps of the 125 gn .357 mag.

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    ...As far as people saying that handgun calibers being anemic, that's a bunch of crap that I'm tired of seeing repeated with absolutely no merit.
    Amen to that!
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
    Walmart sells 9mm in a100 round box for 19.98 for brass cased ammo. That would be 199.80.

    Add and it's still less than 250

    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*
    I've never seen that in my Walmart; what brand is it, I'll have to look for it.

    The best I've seen is WWB for $21.95/100 which makes the out the door price right at $250/1000.
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  3. #48
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    Tangle, Corbon is weak. Here are the real 10mm numbers;

    125 weight@1600 fps for 710 fpe
    At 50 yards it still has 582 fpe and going 1450 fps

    Out of the shorter G29 it's still has a MV of 1501 fps

    The 150 weight Nosler bullet out of the shorter g29 is 1400 fps with 700 fpe.

    So as there shouldn't be any doubt the 10mm reigns supreme.
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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    The only thing they have in common is the bullet diameter. Couldn't we say the same thing about the .357 magn.?

    And wouldn't the 10mm be the other .40 cal?
    Perhaps we should say the .40 is the other 10mm, since the 10 sired the 40.
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  5. #50
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    Man, this is an expensive forum. Having read this thread I'm thinking of buying something in the .357 Sig. Not for EDC, but just as a range gun and something to show my gun buddies...

    Seriously, the prices the OP quotes are on par with .38 and .357 mags. Not overly expensive with respect to its peer calibers. OP, if longevity and price concern you, have you considered reloading?

    As for "stopping power," I gave up on concerning myself with those figures. Believe me, I'm into guns, but I'm not a statistician. People who quote grain/velocity/powders, etc. in the context of stopping power are like those baseball fans that can tell you a particular pitcher's ERA against lefties during afternoon home games in June. Nothing against them, it's a hobby that interests them - but I can't keep up, so I don't try. I just use a recommended SD load that I can shoot accurately and I assume the ammo manufacturers pretty much know what they are doing. My mantra is practice regularly with what you carry so that the shooting is as natural as pointing. I think any of the .38, .9mm, .357, .40 and .45 are sufficient.

    Why is it not as popular as, say, the 38, 9mm, .357, .40 or .45? I think that has to do, in part, in where manufacturers are willing to spend their money in marketing and development. Right now the 38, 9mm, .357, .40 or .45 are "sure things." But I think the round is here to stay, but it will never be as popular as the .38, 9mm, .357, .40 or .45. And from that list you have a range of five different mid- to large cal handguns, each of which are already ingrained in the popular culture and therefore readily marketable to the first time (or onesey-twosey) buyers (not an insignificant market!). Ask a person that's not very familiar with guns what they think about the .357 Sig. You'll get a blank stare. Ask them what they think about the .38, 9mm, .357, .40 or .45, and you'll get an opinion.

    And as Sixto opined, it's a solution looking for a problem. On the flip side, the .40 was a solution to a problem and came first. And taming the 10mm resulted in a very "shootable" round in a shorter framed gun, which equates to a potentially large civilian market to augment the government markets. In short, the .40 appeared at the right time and place and with the consensus of many in the gun community.

    I have difficultly in seeing what new round could ever take away significant market share given the prevalence of the 38, 9mm, .357 Mag, .40 or .45.

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    To look at it another way, the 10mm has more punch at 50 yards than the Sig does at the muzzle.
    It's like comparing the 22 lr to the 22 magnum.

    Absolutely no contest. And don't even think about going heavier with the Sig than 150 weight. That's where the 10mm really runs away.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Tangle, Corbon is weak. Here are the real 10mm numbers;

    125 weight@1600 fps for 710 fpe
    At 50 yards it still has 582 fpe and going 1450 fps

    Out of the shorter G29 it's still has a MV of 1501 fps

    The 150 weight Nosler bullet out of the shorter g29 is 1400 fps with 700 fpe.

    So as there shouldn't be any doubt the 10mm reigns supreme.
    That is impressive, who the manufactures the 125 weight@1600 fps for 710 fpe?

    Also, didn't the FBI find that was too much load for SD type applications?
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Perhaps we should say the .40 is the other 10mm, since the 10 sired the 40.
    True, true, true!
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  9. #54
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    Double Tap Ammo. You need to check out there site. Check out the eye popping numbers of the 9x25 Dillon too. I have the Dillon barrel for my 10mm. Both are easy to shoot even in the g29.

    If you want to really get people's attention, go into an indoor range and let loose with the Dillon.:-)
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    ...I think any of the .38, .9mm, .357, .40 and .45 are sufficient.
    It would seem that we must either believe that all rounds mentioned are equal or they are not. Aside from that, we may modify that with all the mentioned rounds are sufficient, but sufficient in no way means equal.

    I think today we have far too many indicators that indicate some rounds are decisively better fight stoppers than others. I could post quote after quote that supports this.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    ...But I think the round is here to stay, but it will never be as popular as the .38, 9mm, .357, .40 or .45. And from that list you have a range of five different mid- to large cal handguns, each of which are already ingrained in the popular culture...
    Well, I'd like to think the .357 sig is here to stay, I know a lot of agencies are using it - can't speak to how well this list is updated:

    Alameda County
    Delaware State Police (First to adopt the 357 SIG)
    Dallas, Texas Police
    Federal Air Marshals
    Federal Protective Services (FPS) Special Agents for General Services Administration (GSA) - P229
    Keizer Police Department, Oregon
    La Porte County Indiana Sheriff's Department
    Laurence County Sheriff's Office, Tennessee
    Las Vegas Metro Police (allowed use of)
    Liberty Twp Police Dept, Ohio
    Maine Aroostook County Sheriff's Office
    Maine Game Wardens (P226)
    Maricopa County [Phoenix] Arizona Sheriff's Office/MCSO
    Montcalm County (Michigan) Sheriff's Office
    New Jersey Division of Fish & Game
    New Mexico State Police
    Niles Police Dept, Ohio
    Northwood Police Dept, ND
    NC Highway Patrol
    NC Wake County Sheriff's Department
    NC Wildlife Enforcement Officers
    Nueces County Sheriff Department, Texas (Sigpro)
    Oakland County Sheriff's Dept, Michigan
    Orange Police Dept, CT (sig pro, SP2340 .357)
    Orlando PD (plainclothes officers)
    Oxford, Mississippi
    Richmond, Virginia
    Rocky Mount Police Dept, Rocky Mount, NC
    Springfield, IL
    Tennessee Highway Patrol
    Union County Sheriff's Office, Marysville, Ohio (Glock 31)
    Texas, DPS
    United States (GSA) - Office of Inspector General (OIG) Special Agents - P229
    United States Secret Service
    Virginia State Police

    I think the impressive one here is the Secret Service because, If I understand this accurately, they did a bunch of testing and evaluation before choosing the .357 sig.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    ...and therefore readily marketable to the first time (or onesey-twosey) buyers (not an insignificant market!). Ask a person that's not very familiar with guns what they think about the .357 Sig. You'll get a blank stare. Ask them what they think about the .38, 9mm, .357, .40 or .45, and you'll get an opinion.
    True enough certainly, but I can't help but believe if the .357 Sig had been introduced before the .40, the .357 Sig would be the one people know about.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    ...And as Sixto opined, it's a solution looking for a problem. On the flip side, the .40 was a solution to a problem and came first.
    And I think that's the key - the .40 came first. Had the .357 Sig came first, I feel confident that it would have been the .40 as a solution looking for a problem. OTOH, the Secret Service looked at the .40 and chose the .357 Sig as did the FAM. And these were chosen based on major testing an evaluation.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Double Tap Ammo. You need to check out there site. Check out the eye popping numbers of the 9x25 Dillon too. I have the Dillon barrel for my 10mm. Both are easy to shoot even in the g29.

    If you want to really get people's attention, go into an indoor range and let loose with the Dillon.:-)
    But again, no one is carrying these loads as a SD gun and certainly no PDs. It's too much power. As indicated by the Corbon specs and by the FBI abandoning the full house 10mm, the downloaded loadings are more appropriate for SD. In that setting, for that application, there appears to be little difference in SD loads of the .357 sig and 10mm.
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  12. #57
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    I guess that's true if carrying a cartridge because a certain portion of LEAs do.

    If you have your mind on the 357 sig, go for it. It's a great cartridge. But for me, if I were going to put up with the problems of ammo availability, I would just go for the big dog, and skip the " short " version.

    But it depends on what you want. Good luck!
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I guess that's true if carrying a cartridge because a certain portion of LEAs do.

    If you have your mind on the 357 sig, go for it. It's a great cartridge. But for me, if I were going to put up with the problems of ammo availability, I would just go for the big dog, and skip the " short " version.

    But it depends on what you want. Good luck!
    I don't think there's an ammo availability issue - there's somewhat of a cost issue, but for what I've been paying for 9mm ammo either online or from Walmart, the .357 sig is only about 30% more expensive.

    I haven't checked it out, but I would think the 10mm and Dillion is less available and more expensive and too powerful too.

    I mention the PD because they reflect what is appropriate for a large cross section of people. They're findings are that that full load 10mms are too powerful for a lot of people to handle. Plus those full power 10mm loads might blow right through someone and keep going with lots of energy to spare for the next object in it's path.

    The Virgina State Police have found the .357 sig has produced a lot of one shot stops without coming out the back of the BG.
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  14. #59
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    It's a great round, the only reason it has lackluster sales is cost. Americans are cheep and the fact that H K is not making it anymore wouldn't affect my decision. They have the best combat pistols but the worst marketing dept.

  15. #60
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    Arrrr!

    Gman, I guess you know what I've been thinking about for the last half-hour -YOU DID THAT ON PURPOSE!

    So ok, what frame size (Glock) is the 10mm. I mean like the G21 or G22?
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