Explain the FN FiveSeven to me

This is a discussion on Explain the FN FiveSeven to me within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This gun worked far too well at Fort Hood a few years back unfortunately. RIP...

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Thread: Explain the FN FiveSeven to me

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array bunker's Avatar
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    This gun worked far too well at Fort Hood a few years back unfortunately. RIP
    "6 P's of self defense "
    Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Ramjet's Avatar
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    I have done some comparison with water soaked news paper and the cavity it creates compared to well known performers is on par or even better in some cases. Things I compared it to are 125 Grain 357 Mag self defense round. 45 230 grain HP self defense round. 9mm 115 grain self defense +P. No caliber or gun is the complete answer for every scenario but this is real keeper and if for no other reason they are fun to shoot. When a gun is fun to shoot you practice more and when you practice more you get better at shooting.

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    I would like to note that recoil feels like a .22 magnum for a reason, ballistics are pretty close...physics don't lie, if it feels like a .22 magnum on your end, then it will on the lethal end too. I'm not a fan.

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array bunker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodle View Post
    I would like to note that recoil feels like a .22 magnum for a reason, ballistics are pretty close...physics don't lie, if it feels like a .22 magnum on your end, then it will on the lethal end too. I'm not a fan.
    Ask any family member of those who were killed at Fort Hood if they felt the FN is an underpowered pistol. I think you know what the answer would be. Bunker
    "6 P's of self defense "
    Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

  6. #20
    Member Array Hulley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post
    I own several 5.7x28mm firearms. I've tested the ammo commonly available for it. I've found that the most common ammo, loaded with VMAX bullets, stops WELL short of the magical 12" when fired into ballistic media. I found that performance varied wildly in ballistic media stopping at depths of 6" to 10", but averaging around 8". That's not good performance for a defensive round.
    I personally wouldn't carry for self defense.
    Really? Here is a vid of the most common round SS197 going right through 10" of ballistic gel.


    Here is a vid of Elite Ammunition Protector II which is what I keep in my FiveseveN.
    I carry a .357mag because no one bickers about the .357mag being "enough".

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunker View Post
    Ask any family member of those who were killed at Fort Hood if they felt the FN is an underpowered pistol. I think you know what the answer would be. Bunker
    Well I think Fort Hood is a perfect example of an evil man with an evil will...as for the caliber/pistol choice...heck any CAN be lethal.

  8. #22
    Member Array Hulley's Avatar
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    I fully understand that some people have a hard time accepting that such a small/light round could do any damage, heck it took me a few years to accept it and drop a $1k on this pistol. But I've seen enough vids/test/hunting pics that tell me otherwise. I love the FiveseveN and when I can do a mag dump @ 10yrds and keep EVERY round in the center mass target I feel just fine.
    I carry a .357mag because no one bickers about the .357mag being "enough".

  9. #23
    Member Array ScottieG59's Avatar
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    There is not enough validated performance history on the round, especially the civilian ammo. We already know about other calibers that work well. Why be the experiment if this is to be used in combat? Let someone else collect the real world data.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Ramjet's Avatar
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    Guys the ballistics of the 22 mag are from a rifle that's one thing.

    The Secret Service uses this caliber in the fully auto PS90 I suspect they do so with some confidence it will neutralize the assailant effectively or they would not use it.

    The main task of said gun is for special ops and entry teams to make precise and lethal shots on multiple targets with speed and precision.

    Such data is not available to the public.

    At the end of the day one can use what they beleive in I have no issue with what you choose for a defensive weapon and you should not be concerned with what I use. I see allot of advantage to using the carrying the 5.7 x 28. I respect if you do not you may have good reason and to debate the effectiveness knowing your beliefs can be real waste of both our time.

    One thing I do not like is using the Fort Hood shooting as edict as to the effectiveness of the round. Not very respectful in my mind.
    helderberg and tcox4freedom like this.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array MilitaryArms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulley View Post
    Really? Here is a vid of the most common round SS197 going right through 10" of ballistic gel.


    Here is a vid of Elite Ammunition Protector II which is what I keep in my FiveseveN.
    I believe I said "6 to 10 inches with an average around 8 in my tests". Zipping through 10" isn't impressive. 12" is a minimum for defensive carry for me (and the FBI).

    Take 2 one gallon milk jugs full of water out and set them back to back on a table. From 5 yards fire a 197 into the jugs. You'll find the round will explode in the first jug and it might puncture the second jug but won't come anywhere close to clearing it. You'll also be lucky to find much of anything resembling a bullet in the tiny pieces of fragments that will be left behind. Most ballistics experts recommend that a bullet should retain as much mass as possible and bullets that disintegrate aren't ideal.

    Don't watch videos on YouTube or read what I have to say, or anyone else. It's a simple enough demonstration that you can do it yourself for practically no cost.

    Then do the same test with a .40, 9mm and .45. Let me know how impressed you are with the 5.7's performance after you're done.

    I don't make random comments or regurgitate what I read online. I test things for myself, usually pretty extensively and draw my conclusions from that experience.

    I have nothing against the 5.7 and I still enjoy shooting my PS90 SBR. But after a year of shooting the FiveseveN pistol I came to the conclusion far better options existed for a defensive handgun in terms of terminal performance. They are neat guns, no doubt.

    Oh, and when I did my testing more capable defensive ammo wasn't on the market. About all you could get was the VMAX stuff.
    Please visit my YouTube channel: The Military Arms Channel

  12. #26
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    I have a couple of friends that have PS90's. They brought them on a hog hunt last month and I couldn't believe they were putting down some good sized hogs (150lbs.+) with one shot, maybe two. I would've never believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself. I even shot a 180lbs hog with one shot out of a PS90. At approx. 50yds the hog went down like it hit a brick wall.

    I wouldn't consider a Five-Seven handgun at that price, but I'd spring the extra bucks for a PS90, just for fun...
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  13. #27
    Member Array Hulley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post
    I don't make random comments or regurgitate what I read online. I test things for myself, usually pretty extensively and draw my conclusions from that experience.
    Oh, and when I did my testing more capable defensive ammo wasn't on the market. About all you could get was the VMAX stuff.
    I honestly dont believe you make random comments and I do believe you are genuine in your test/statements, but, when someone says 6-10" and offers no proof and to see brassfetchers slow motion vids proving otherwise, I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from. The milk jug test is cool but is it really a controlled environment for ballistics testing?
    I carry a .357mag because no one bickers about the .357mag being "enough".

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array MilitaryArms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulley View Post
    I honestly dont believe you make random comments and I do believe you are genuine in your test/statements, but, when someone says 6-10" and offers no proof and to see brassfetchers slow motion vids proving otherwise, I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from. The milk jug test is cool but is it really a controlled environment for ballistics testing?
    Using water is a test you can do yourself (low cost) and the neat thing about water is that it's consistently dense regardless of the environmental conditions (assuming it's not frozen). It doesn't give you a means to precisely measure penetration but it does give you a decent idea of bullet performance in terms of expansion and a rough estimate of penetration. If you want to invest in the equipment and test media to perform controlled tests, by all means, go for it. I'm sure you would have fun not just testing your 5.7 but other calibers.

    With regards to ballistic gel, lots of people seem to think it's a good representation of human flesh and the results that you get with it are identical to results you get in actual shootings. Most experts will tell you that ballistic gel is not identical to flesh and what you get with gel will not always mirror what a bullet would do in an actual shooting. The reason it's used is because results are fairly repeatable so a base can be established for comparing various loads and it can be used as a standard.

    As for the really poor penetration, that was with VMAX bullets. When they were available (I can't get them anymore), the lead free ball rounds penetrated much better and more consistently. The VMAX bullets were the only ones that varied wildly in my testing, and that turned me off because it's by far the most common loads available. I would like to try some of the Elite ammo and may get around to testing it out of my PS90 SBR to see how it performs compared to the VMAX's.

    I'm serious though, get some of the 197's and save a few milk jugs. Fire a few rounds into them filled with water and look for the rounds in the jugs afterwards. You'll likely be surprised, as I was, to find the bullets practically disintegrate. Then do it with something like a 9mm (you'll need a few more milk jugs as it will go through a couple more) and see how much weight it retains.
    Please visit my YouTube channel: The Military Arms Channel

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Bottom line here from what I read (and I own one) is that the disbelievers do not believe and the believers do--period/end of story. You do what you want, I do what I want. All I can say is that there is certainly evidence that exit velocity and frangibility are part of the 57--couple that with lightweight, high capacity, accuracy and, most importantly for my decision, LO RECOIL and you have the ingredients I was looking for in a home defense firearm. Ramjet said "fun to shoot"---this translates to "good shooting" in a defensive situation--it is just an easy firearm to take control of and be very capable with as a novice firearm owner. Doodle talks about "ballistics being close to a 22 mag"----maybe the bullet is the same size but the velocity sure is not and THAT is what makes the 57 cartridge different and lethal, particularly when you combine it with designed frangiblity.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array MilitaryArms's Avatar
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    I wasn't doing videos back when I did the testing with the FiveseveN pistol. But I did take the PS90 SBR out and shot some video last year of a demonstration (I won't call it a test) that I never used. I dug that video up this morning and put it together for you. It's a short clip, but it shows how the 197 doesn't penetrate even one milk jug full of water out of a PS90 SBR (longer barrel than a FiveseveN) and then at the end I show that a .45 ACP with JHP rounds easily penetrates 3 jugs of water.

    Please visit my YouTube channel: The Military Arms Channel

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