Heads up on what should be a very interesting article about a study about SD ammo

This is a discussion on Heads up on what should be a very interesting article about a study about SD ammo within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Kilowatt3 Yep! And while we're at it, let's wrap up Ford vs. Chevy, Harley vs. Metric , Glock vs. Everything Else, and ...

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Thread: Heads up on what should be a very interesting article about a study about SD ammo

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilowatt3 View Post
    Yep! And while we're at it, let's wrap up Ford vs. Chevy, Harley vs. Metric, Glock vs. Everything Else, and Crunchy or Smooth?
    Politically correct, yet amusing as heck. I call mine my "rice burner", doncha' know.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    So your saying the Army and Marines had it right 3-6 rounds Bursts.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I recently ordered up a .45 ACP Glock 30. Not because I think the .45 is a better "stopper" than my 9mm Glock 19 and 26, but because most of my duties with my department involve dealing with people in/around cars (traffic details and the like). The heavier .45 is better at penetrating barriers than the lighter 9mm. Other than that...

    Should be an interesting article. I'll start buying some popcorn now...
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    If it's the one I think they will do, just wait until it shows that the 9mm fmj is has only a 9% less stop rate as a ( gasp!) rifle. And that everything from a 32 up to the 45Acp are very very close in the shot to stop ratio for hits on the body.

    Yeah, gonna be alot of buzz here on ol DC.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    If it's the one I think they will do, just wait until it shows that the 9mm fmj is has only a 9% less stop rate as a ( gasp!) rifle. And that everything from a 32 up to the 45Acp are very very close in the shot to stop ratio for hits on the body.

    Yeah, gonna be alot of buzz here on ol DC.
    Thats it, I am getting rid of my rifles since they don't offer anything more than my pistols do and take up lots more room. All items will be posted in the buy, sell, trade section.

    Will be interesting to see what the article says, and how they are using the data. I guess guns beat a sharp stick in most cases.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    55% to 45%?

    Sounds like a 50/50 chance to me.

    I dunno; there's so many different variables in a shooting how can it really be reduced to statistics?

    Shot placement, bullet energy and/or momentum, barriers, angles, the will to kill, or the will to not to be killed...etc, etc...

    I am gonna stick around for the main event though
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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  8. #22
    Member Array Hulley's Avatar
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    This ought to be good.
    I carry a .357mag because no one bickers about the .357mag being "enough".

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Find a caliber you shoot well and use it wisely. When it is time to talk, talk and don't shoot. When it is time to shoot, shoot and don't talk...when faced with this situation you should be doing one of two things: Shooting or Reloading.
    Kilowatt3 and BlueHawk76 like this.
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  10. #24
    RKM
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    If it's the one I think they will do, just wait until it shows that the 9mm fmj is has only a 9% less stop rate as a ( gasp!) rifle. And that everything from a 32 up to the 45Acp are very very close in the shot to stop ratio for hits on the body.

    Yeah, gonna be alot of buzz here on ol DC.
    Haha, yeah. Stopping power varies from target to target. One guy may go down from a single shot from a .32 while and other could walk through two shots of a .308 rifle. It'll never be cut and dry, but I think it's safe to say that most would still rather rely on rifle over a handgun (if capable) to fight with. People don't like getting shot, most will turn and run the other way no matter what they're shot with. Of course, our goal is to stop, not kill. For ethical one shot kills (hunting) rifles will always be preferred, even if a 9mm could take a deer, I'm sure it can if used properly, the "killing power" isn't the same. If it's not, why do people hunt with high power rifles? I don't hunt by the way.

    No matter what firearm I'm using, or what I'm shooting (defensively), I'm going to shoot until it turns and runs or falls. Whether it's 7.62x39 or .38 special. Of course if I had the choice, I'll take the x39.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    ...When it is time to talk, talk and don't shoot. When it is time to shoot, shoot and don't talk...
    Great post! Is that original, or are you quoting someone?

    Regards,
    Jim

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Something to look forward to. Not, of course, that there would be controversy over the empirical facts that we will read.

  13. #27
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    I think I will put the popcorn in the microwave and crack a beer for this one. I could careless who writes this article and how it's written. I won't change my mind and neither will it change the majority of people.

    Looking forward to reading it though!
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilowatt3 View Post
    Great post! Is that original, or are you quoting someone?

    Regards,
    Jim
    Not quoting anyone that I'm aware of, but I can't swear that I haven't heard some variation of "there's a time for talkin and a time for shootin" before.
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Not quoting anyone that I'm aware of, but I can't swear that I haven't heard some variation of "there's a time for talkin and a time for shootin" before.
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  16. #30
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    Guys, I have read the article thanks to a good friend.

    It's interesting to me that some have already closed their minds to any new data that might be revealing. Some are already beginning to discredit any claims that don't agree with their position.

    So let me ask, what do you base your beliefs about bullet effectiveness on? I mean if literally thousands of shootings are analyzed in very reasonable way, it's just all statistics? So we just discount it as nonsense? Again, what info/data do you go by and what do you believe and why?

    Most can't even start to give a reasonable answer to that. Most will deny that if we see trends coming from literally hundreds of street shootings that it means anything.

    Here are some details:
    Hits are considered to be anywhere on the torso or head. That seems very reasonable. We know in a gunfight, we may not be able to get the placement we would hope to. But nonetheless, this study is about what really happened rather than internet hype. And what really happened, is there were a lot of stops with hits to the torso or head.

    Fact- there is more data for the 9mm than any other round - well over twice as any other round in fact. There is enough 9mm data that it can be considered statistically significant. All this means is the data and trends of the 9mm will be the most accurate of all the data collected.

    Now for something Glockman10mm said, "If it's the one I think they will do, just wait until it shows that the 9mm fmj is has only a 9% less stop rate as a ( gasp!) rifle... I think he read the .357 mag. as the 9mm; they're right beside each other. But, his point still stands strongly. The 9mm shows a failure to incapacitate in about 13% of the real-world actual shootings, and remember half of the 9mm hits were with ball ammo, and the results are still 13%. The rifle data shows a failure to incapacitate in about 9% of the real-world actual shootings. The difference is 4%, not 9%.

    And, remember there is more data on the 9mm than any other round. That means the trends disclosed by the 9mm data is not likely to change much with further shootings. The rifle data is rather small statistically speaking - 126 people shot compared to 456 for the 9mm. So, it could be that further shootings with a rifle could make the failure to incapacitate percentage go down. What's the most it could go down? 9%! It actually can't go down that much, it can only approach a 9% change with huge numbers added to the data base.

    Ok, that's all the spoiling I'm doing for now. We'll have to read the article and I can promise you there's another gem in it that may be surprising and is certainly significant. I can also promise that it will be vehemently denied even though real-world street shootings show it to be true.
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