Heads up on what should be a very interesting article about a study about SD ammo

Heads up on what should be a very interesting article about a study about SD ammo

This is a discussion on Heads up on what should be a very interesting article about a study about SD ammo within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm putting this here instead of in the ammo forum because it pertains specifically to self-defense. In his "The Insider" column in the Mar/Apr 2012 ...

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    Heads up on what should be a very interesting article about a study about SD ammo

    I'm putting this here instead of in the ammo forum because it pertains specifically to self-defense.

    In his "The Insider" column in the Mar/Apr 2012 edition of "American Handgunner" (on the newsstands now), Roy Huntington talks about an upcoming article - NOT IN THIS EDITION about "...a new groundbreaking stopping power article....".

    Here's an excerpt from "The Insider" column.

    "right of the top -- and we'll prove this in a future issue with a new, groundbreaking stopping power article -- any handgun caliber (from 9mm/.38 Special on up), loaded with reliable, modern defensive ammunition, will do the job to protect you. And amazingly enough, in our study we learned virtually any caliber, from 9mm to .44 mag, takes from one to two shots to stop a bad guy. The final numbers showed around 55 percent are stopped within one to two shots -- regardless of caliber!"

    We don't want to do too much speculation before we've even read the article, but one thing that jumped out at me was this, "...The final numbers showed around 55 percent are stopped within one to two shots.". I'm going to restate that the 'other' way. The final numbers show that around 45 percent of the time (almost half the time), it took more than two shots for a stop.

    Should be an interesting read.
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    Senior Member Array WD54241's Avatar
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    This has my attention, will read article.

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    DITTO!
    Chicken Little? Who the heck is Chicken Little? And what does she know, anyway?!

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    Yup, I'll be looking for it for sure... Thanks for the heads up.
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    Member Array kinoons's Avatar
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    Yeah it sounds interesting, but it doesn't say a lot more than we currently know.

    1) handguns are a compromise
    2) once you get the minimum penetration with expansion, calibers tend to even out
    3) anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice
    4) if given the choice, I'd defend myself with a carbine or rifle, but since i'm not often given the choice, I'll live with my handgun.
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    I just read a new study via email where after a total of 600 shootings the 32acp is not far from the 9mm, 38,,40and 45 in the number of shots that it takes to stop violent aggressive behavior during an attack. This study takes into consideration that a "stop" doesn't always mean attacker down and out, but includes a " change of mind" after being hit.
    This sounds reasonable to me in this context, as stopping the aggression is the main goal.
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    I subscribe...so I'll be waiting on this. Sounds like a rifle or a shotgun is the way to go where practical,of course !
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    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    ...We don't want to do too much speculation before we've even read the article, but one thing that jumped out at me was this, "...The final numbers showed around 55 percent are stopped within one to two shots.". I'm going to restate that the 'other' way. The final numbers show that around 45 percent of the time (almost half the time), it took more than two shots for a stop.

    Should be an interesting read.
    Hi Ron,

    Agreed, we don't want to do too much speculation before we've even read the article, but there were two things that jumped out at me, from the posted excerpt:

    The "55 percent stopped within one or two shots" doesn't address the number of stops with NO shots fired. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that the most frequent defensive use of a gun is to deter a BG - not to shoot him.

    The "one to two shots" also doesn't say anything about "hits" or "CoM hits". I'd bet a dollar to a beignet that in the vast majority of cases where it took two or more shots, one or more of them missed, or were at least poorly placed.

    Some folks will almost certainly read more into the stats than is really there. It sounds like the basic premise is that there's not a huge difference in "stopping power" between the major handgun calibers. For well-placed shots, I tend to agree with that (but still prefer a .45 over a 9 or a .38). I look forward to the article, too.

    Regards,
    Jim
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    To my mind, lethal-force encounters are like real estate. The 3 important factors are: location, location, location.

    Location of your weapon-easily accessible.

    Location of yourself in relation to the threat-"Getting off the X", cover & concealment, etc. The ultimate name of the game is not being harmed if at all possible.

    Location of your fire- CNS/Coronary hits are the key to 'real stopping power'.

    There are trade-offs and larger calibers do allow for a larger 'margin of error'. That said, if I had the choice in self defense, I'd rather put a .22 in a BG's eye than a .45 in his arm.

    I'd also be interested in these 'tests' for other reasons. There are an infinite number of variables in a "Dynamic Critical Incident" (as Mr. Pincus likes to call it). Will these tests be conducted in a stressful situation? Will they be conducted by highly-trained persons or the guy who spent an hour at the gun-show and fired a shot into a box? Will the test be the FBI one (Me to BG..."Excuse me...could you remove your ribs and put on 3 more layers of 6oz. denim so I can shoot you?)

    I am highly skeptical, but I do hope this returns the focus to training>caliber.
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    I presume the 'study' is based on street shootings. That's about the only way we could get 'stop' information about a gunfight.

    It matters little where the shots hit; it represents what happened, not what could have. I realize we all could out shoot all the guys involved in the gunfight and would never miss the COM, etc.

    Before we get too analytic etc., don't you think it might be a good idea to wait and read the article?
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    Finally the argument will be settled
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post

    Before we get too analytic etc., don't you think it might be a good idea to wait and read the article?
    That takes all the fun out of it. This thread will go viral depending on the results of .380 ammo. Mods might have a busy day

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    All the more reason to train to the double tap. Just firing off rounds at a target does not help prepare one for that confrontation for which we all want to train. Train as you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elk Hunter View Post
    Finally the argument will be settled
    Yep! And while we're at it, let's wrap up Ford vs. Chevy, Harley vs. Metric, Glock vs. Everything Else, and Crunchy or Smooth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilowatt3 View Post
    Yep! And while we're at it, let's wrap up Ford vs. Chevy, Harley vs. Metric, Glock vs. Everything Else, and Crunchy or Smooth?
    Chevy,Harley,Everything but Glock (Sig), Crunchy. There, now we just have to solve the deficit and world hunger

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