1911s Suck - Page 13

1911s Suck

This is a discussion on 1911s Suck within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Comparing one brand (glock) against the whole array of 1911 manufactures is not a fair comparison...yea...can't believe I didn't think of that.....

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  1. #181
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
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    Comparing one brand (glock) against the whole array of 1911 manufactures is not a fair comparison...yea...can't believe I didn't think of that..


  2. #182
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    It just so happens I was reading the 10-8 blog and saw this post. I thought it was interesting.

    It is at the very bottom of the first page of the blog.

    10-8 Performance



    AAR: Duty 1911 Class, Liberty Hill TX


    What better time could be had than spending two days in the Great Nation of Texas, devoting days to the quintessential American handgun, and spending nights enjoying Texas barbeque? I don't know what the answer is, but 16 students had a great time testing out the theory during our Duty 1911 Class.

    Students started Day 1 in the classroom at the Best of the West Shooting Range in Liberty Hill, Texas. Students went over the inner workings of their 1911s, detail stripped, and thoroughly inspected each gun. Any guns with identified deficiencies were addressed on the spot. Of the 16 student guns, the following issues were found and addressed:

    •5 loose plunger tubes - restaked and Loctited
    •9 extractors - geometry and tension issues corrected
    •2 hammer follow issues
    •2 loose sights - set screws Loctited
    •2 sets of loose grip screw bushings
    Now if 16 students showed up, all with Glocks, how many problems do you think you would find after detail stripping. My guess, probably none to one, what is there to go wrong or need adjusting/tuning.

    Brief outline of the course.


    10-8 Duty 1911 Classes

    10-8 Performance's sister company, 10-8 Consulting, conducts 2-day Duty 1911 Courses throughout the country. This course is based on a comprehensive transition course taught to law enforcement personnel intending to carry the 1911 for duty use. The course is open enrollment, and is suitable for anyone interested in learning more about their 1911.

    The 1911 platform requires a more sophisticated end user to properly operate and maintain than typical modern service pistols. With that in mind, this course is specifically designed educate the student on operational theory of the 1911, helping the student avoid reliability pitfalls of the 1911, as well as diagnose and rectify problems as they appear.

    The live fire portion of the course will focus on 1911 specific manipulations, such as proper usage of the mechanical safety, slide stop, and malfunction clearances.


    Topics covered include (but are not limited to):
    •Basic care and feeding
    •Full detail stripping and reassembly
    •Proper maintenance, lubrication
    •Pros and Cons of firing pin safeties
    •Safety checks
    •The cycle of operation as it pertains to the 1911
    •Diagnosing reliability issues
    •Extractor issues, basic tensioning and head geometry
    •Inspection points for reliability
    •Basic modifications that can be done by the end user to maximize reliability
    •test fire protocols to ensure that your 1911 is fit for duty
    •Pros and cons of current commercially available 1911s
    •Pros and cons of popular modifications and aftermarket parts
    •Other equipment selection
    •Marksmanship Fundamentals
    •Presentation
    •Grip and Recoil Management as it pertains to the 1911
    •Support Gear Selection
    •Safety Manipulation
    •Tactical vs. Emergency Reloads
    •Malfunction Clearances
    •Drills specifically tailored to address controls of the 1911

    Hilton Yam of 10-8 Performance will be on site to help diagnose pistol problems and perform minor gunsmithing work as needed.
    DRM likes this.

  3. #183
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    Lol.... 16 guns, 20 identified problems before the first round went down range....
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #184
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    •5 loose plunger tubes - restaked and Loctited
    •9 extractors - geometry and tension issues corrected
    •2 hammer follow issues
    •2 loose sights - set screws Loctited
    •2 sets of loose grip screw bushings

    Consider what level of shooter are we talking about here. The extractor issue is one that I have talked about many times on this forum before.
    It is a problem with some 1911s that needs to (should be) be addressed.
    I'm certain that prior to shooting all of the extractors were given an "ideal tension" GREAT! but that is in no way indicative of the fact that all of those guns would have failed to function in actual use.
    Since ideally a 1911 should have an extractor set at a correct tension but, an incorrect tension does not always mean that a 1911 will have failures to function.
    An improperly tensioned (less than ideal) extractor means that a 1911 could suffer erratic ejection or difficulty feeding all configurations of ammo or the gun could hang a bit during the feed if the extractor is tensioned too tight.


    Loose grip screw bushings - Let us ignore this one as a non-issue since with a loose grip screw bushing the grips are still physically on the firearm & just getting said grip panel OFF could be problematic.

    How any serious 1911 owner could have a 1911 with a loose plunger tube and not know that the plunger tube was loose sort of tells me that the same individual would not run a GLOCK (or any other firearm) very well or very responsibly either.
    One neat thing about the 1911 is that with a proper set of 1911 grips that have that top flange that fully rests over and on top of the plunger tube - the 1911 can operate fine with a plunger tube that is not staked in (at all) or...set with Loc-Tite.
    The plunger tube is simply held in place by downward pressure from the grip panel.
    The plunger tube legs are in their mated frame holes and the plunger-tube really cannot go anywhere and the thumb safety and slide stop will both continue to function. Amazing!

    Hammer "follow through" AKA the hammer follows the slide when the slide is slammed on an empty chamber is (of course) an issue that should be addressed but, it is not a fight stopper.

    Loose sights are a problem that could possibly be common to all firearms and should always be checked by all shooters. We know that GLOCKS have NEVER had any front & rear sight issues.

    But the above mentioned issues only serve to reaffirm what I already know.
    If a shooter is a person of a mindset that he/she is not willing to become (in any way) familiar enough with the workings of his/her personal defense firearm to know that a simple grip screw bushing is loose - then please do the entire shooting world a huge favor and DO buy a GLOCK. They don't have grip panels.
    Some folks SHOULD just purchase a firearm that they can stay completely ignorant and clueless about & not have to know anything at all about the firearm that they carry daily to save their lives.
    It's the American lazy way these days.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  5. #185
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    I carry a 1911all day, every day but...

    This guy is right. Not about everything he says mind you but, in general he is factually correct. Glocks work better out of the box than most 1911s. That isn't to say that you or I don't get the occasional good gun right from the factory, we do. If we are honest though we go to lots of trouble to make sure that our 1911's work properly including sending them back to the factory or having a smith customize the gun. You just don't have that much to worry about with the Glock. As far as grip angle goes, he is right again. I have always said that anyone can shoot a glock well if they want to commit to the gun. I can shoot either quite well though I do prefer the feel of the 1911. He is alsocorrect when he says that most of us don't shoot our guns often enough to know that they are truly reliable. As right as he is however, I have a few 1911's that I trust enough to carry every day. I have others that I won't. If I am knowingly going to a gun fight or, the spit has hit the fan, I will be strapping on one or both of my Glock 23's in 40 caliber and carrying as many 15 and 13 round mags as I can.
    DRM likes this.

  6. #186
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    A General Observation And A Statement.

    After reading through all of these recent forum threads I am truly starting to believe that some people just should not own certain firearms.
    Which is just peachy keen and fine with me.
    There are lots of various assorted firearms out there. Hopefully folks will find one that suits them personally and they will carry that.

    I dunno...maybe it's ME....but, I could hand any one of my 1911s over to any "smith" or any armorer on the planet and there would be not one grip screw bushing loose - or one loose plunger tube found - and there would be no extractor related issues and and all of my handgun sights are tight.

    Am I that RARE of an individual? I hope NOT!

    And To ANY shooter....If you don't even know that your dadblamed sights are loose on your self-defensive handgun (whatever doggone make or model of handgun it is that you choose to carry) then how da Hell are you ever even thinking about running an AR?
    And possibly you shouldn't even be carrying a firearm at all....maybe?

    There are just some folks that could take their pistol magazines apart to clean them and then put all of their mag springs in back asswards and then complain that their gun won't function or that they bought a whole bunch of defective magazines and all of their rounds are nose diving into the frame feed ramp!

    I just don't know what to say except that I am incredibly happy that there are some gun manufacturers out there that are making firearms that are absolutely as "nincompoop proof" as is humanly possible to make them.

    I am just "mind boggled" and dumbfounded by many of these posts.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  7. #187
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    ^^^^strongly agree.^^^^^
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I am just "mind boggled" and dumbfounded by many of these posts.
    I'm not.






    DRM and gottabkiddin like this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  9. #189
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    Lightbulb

    Problems with the grip safety are entirely due to poor technique and training of the user.
    So, according to some of you guys, me and Col. Cooper had poor technique and didn’t get enough training, right?

    "We were treated to a great display of 45 autos, most of which were very nice. Since the commencement of the Practical Shooting Revolution, we have opined that all the 1911 really needs are a trigger that you can manage, sights that you can see and a dehorning job. In addition, one might propose a deactivated grip safety (!), a lanyard loop, a bobbed hammer, and press-fitted stock screw sockets. One thing the original pistol does not need is a recoil spring guide, which is now a popular feature of new construction. (It is curious to see a certain amount of trouble undertaken to achieve a slight step backward.) Most of the new 45s feature an extrusion on the lower end of the grip safety, which does not work for me, though it may for you. (Fortunately the grip safety is easily pinned shut.)" Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Previously Gunsite Gossip, Vol. 11, No. 3 March 2003

    My work here is over...
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
    Tactical Shooting Academy & Custom Shop
    www.TacticalShooting.com

  10. #190
    Member Array slacking's Avatar
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    Didn't he used to be fat? When did he discover HGH and roids and started dressing like a 20 something MMA enthusiast? Also, he has more facial and body tics than anybody short of a crackhead with tourettes.

  11. #191
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    It just so happens I was reading the 10-8 blog and saw this post. I thought it was interesting.

    It is at the very bottom of the first page of the blog.

    10-8 Performance



    Now if 16 students showed up, all with Glocks, how many problems do you think you would find after detail stripping. My guess, probably none to one, what is there to go wrong or need adjusting/tuning.

    Brief outline of the course.
    Holy crap! This outlines my previous points exactly.

  12. #192
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    A General Observation And A Statement.

    After reading through all of these recent forum threads I am truly starting to believe that some people just should not own certain firearms.
    Which is just peachy keen and fine with me.
    There are lots of various assorted firearms out there. Hopefully folks will find one that suits them personally and they will carry that.

    I dunno...maybe it's ME....but, I could hand any one of my 1911s over to any "smith" or any armorer on the planet and there would be not one grip screw bushing loose - or one loose plunger tube found - and there would be no extractor related issues and and all of my handgun sights are tight.

    Am I that RARE of an individual? I hope NOT!

    And To ANY shooter....If you don't even know that your dadblamed sights are loose on your self-defensive handgun (whatever doggone make or model of handgun it is that you choose to carry) then how da Hell are you ever even thinking about running an AR?
    And possibly you shouldn't even be carrying a firearm at all....maybe?

    There are just some folks that could take their pistol magazines apart to clean them and then put all of their mag springs in back asswards and then complain that their gun won't function or that they bought a whole bunch of defective magazines and all of their rounds are nose diving into the frame feed ramp!

    I just don't know what to say except that I am incredibly happy that there are some gun manufacturers out there that are making firearms that are absolutely as "nincompoop proof" as is humanly possible to make them.

    I am just "mind boggled" and dumbfounded by many of these posts.
    My question to you sir is, were all of your 1911's in such good working order when you took them out of the box?

  13. #193
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    Good gracious guys! This just isn't working.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

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