This is a discussion on 1911s Suck within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; everyone has opinions, we choose to agree with some and disagree with others that's what makes America Great......
February 21st, 2012 11:32 PM
everyone has opinions, we choose to agree with some and disagree with others that's what makes America Great...
I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
And die to find out there isn't, than live my life
As if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
February 21st, 2012 11:56 PM
Self written bio's are like resumes, half of it's BS....
Originally Posted by zonker1986
Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!
February 22nd, 2012 12:04 AM
For the sake of conversation I would sum up everything but the last 2 statements you said by saying that the average 1911 may (some may often) take special care (sometimes simple and cheap fixes) to be made to operate reliably. where as a glock or xd or m&p or sig or (you get the idea) can be expected to work bone stock out of the box with greater than 99% reliability. Fair sum up?
Originally Posted by QKShooter
I would also like to note that most if not all of the pistols on my list vs the 1911 (except maybe the sig) cost significantly less than the average 1911. Nostalgia aside with reliability being the most important factor, I am not a fan of the 1911 as a fighting handgun. Magazine capacity, ergonomics and weight also weigh on my personal opinion greatly.
If we made up a new firearms manufacturer, (we'll call it doodle firearms) invented a brand new pistol design. Doodle then started mass producing those firearms but a fair amount left the factory with extractors that needed tuning. Also Doodle firearms was providing substandard magazines on some of his pistols from the factory (this happened to me on the springfield I had). How well do you think Doodle firearms would be received or rated on this forum? What if the only Doodle Firearms that worked with 100% reliability came from the Doodle "custom shop." I think that doodle firearms would be out of business fast or selling his firearms cheaper than highpoint. But wer'e talking about the 1911, a pistol that is deeply rooted in our history in the last 100 years, and it's very asthetically pleasing..the nostalgia and cool factors get turned way up here. People own 1911's that work (if they didn't they got them fixed or got rid of them) and they love them...we all love our personal guns. When someone suggests that the pistol that they own may not be the best for personal defense due to hit or miss reliability depending on maker and cost (sometimes really big cost) they get very defensive...irrationally defensive. If your 1911 works, great, an opinion that counters yours does not make one an idiot regardless of their age. (QK shooter obviously I'm not directing that last part at you)
February 22nd, 2012 01:08 AM
That's a good intelligent post with good observations. The entire 1911 "thing" is incredibly "runaway" complex. It has (over the years) morphed into a monster. I pretty much drink the Colt Kool-aid so all of my Colts these days are by Colt but, in the past I've owned a few others by other makers. Detonics and Randall.
Mine have all functioned "right out of the box" but, (of course I HAVE experienced malfs once I first starting doing my own modifications) it WAS a learning process for me. Sometimes a frustrating process but, mostly an enjoyable one AKA learning how to do metal checkering and fitting some aftermarket parts. People tend to believe that "drop in" parts always just "drop in" and they tend to always ignore the last part of the "drop in" disclaimer which reads "minor Gunsmithing May Be Required" and that is where many problems happen. But, on the plus side there is no firearm that can be more perfectly tailored to the individual shooter than the 1911.
For example all of my guns have a thinner right grip panel and short triggers - along with a few other mods that really make it MY handgun.
So...I like the 1911s for that reason plus the superior ergonomics (for me) as well as the crisp sweet trigger.
That does not mean that I don't appreciate the GLOCK for what it is (a great self-defense firearm) but, since my personal 1911s are all reliable I really don't have a reason to change firearm formats. Though I do really like the SIG also.
One big problem with the Doodle 1911 is that there is not one Doodle 1911 factory. There is Doodle1911A & Doodle1911B & Doodle1911C all the way up the alphabet and back down again. All of those are all "put out there" with varying degrees of care in assembly and parts material & tolerance specs - so I'm not sure that it's even possible to call them all (in any way) traditional or classic 1911 Doodles.
The 1911 and all of its variations is just this HUGE mega marketplace these days. It's pretty astounding. Allow me to take a moment out and just rattle off the top of my head the numbers of folks making 1911 FRAMES - Caspian Les Baer DoubleStar STI WILSON COMBAT ESSEX Nighthawk etc.............
And then look again at the total numbers of companies that are putting out their version of "1911" magazines.
I could probably name about 30 right off the bat.
I can say that Most People that attempt to "build" their own 1911 without truly understand the inter-part relationships WILL end up with a firearm that malfs.
I can also say that all people that have a firearm built by WILSON or Baer or MANY of the talented custom makers will have a firearm that functions as reliably as a GLOCK.
Will it cost MORE than a Glock? Sadly Yes.
BUT, (on the flip side of the coin) Most folks that buy a Colt from Colt or one of the reputable makers WILL have a firearm that will function right out of the box.
I'm just not sure that you can lump all of the "1911s" out there into one huge pile and compare them all to a GLOCK.
That would be like comparing a TRUCKLOAD full of apples to one Orange. The one sweet tasting juicy Orange that would be the GLOCK. But, there are a LOT of really tasty apples in that truckload also - just not all of them and expect a few to be downright rotten.
Naturally even a fine fully functional Colt 1911 will not be for everybody even IF it operates 100%.
Especially with younger shooters who would class it as "too heavy" "old fashioned" "ancient technology" "out moded" etc. & I have no problem with that. I don't wear my Dads CuffLinks even though they are beautiful, solid 18K Gold & with large diamonds set in them. I am just not a cufflink sort of guy.
Touching on sub-standard magazines. Hey...They are out there. It's America and anytime there is $$$ to be made somebody ids going to try to make it either by hook or crook. But, as far as High Quality magazines are concerned - some of the best magazines ever produced for any handgun ever are being made for the 1911 also.
They are not inexpensive though. The CerTac mags and the Tripp Research & The Wilsons etc...are just amazing.
SO....the debate continues forever I guess but, there is no reason for folks to get all in a huff over what firearm is "all that" I don't have to save your life and you don't hafta save mine. I only have to have confidence in what will save my own bacon and whatever anybody else wants to trust their respective lives to is their own personal business.
As far as the maker of this VIDEO is concerned if he wants to offer me a free run-through w/ me using a 1911 then I'll bite and he can make another video about my 1911 and how AMAZED he is that it was a "Damn 1911!" & it actually WORKED!
But, I also want one of those nifty black T-Shirts with the wings on the sleeves.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
February 22nd, 2012 01:08 AM
I don't think it would be good for business to fabricate your resume on your website.....nosy people have a way of verifying
Originally Posted by C hawk Glock
pretty much everthing written there.
"Said I never had any use for one.....never said I didn't know how to use it. " Matthew Quiqley
February 22nd, 2012 01:45 AM
February 22nd, 2012 03:33 AM
Well I am really new here and my credibility on this site is 0.
I have a Colt Combat Commander that I was lucky enough to get about 15 years ago. It was built in 1975 was in beautiful condition the day I bought it and it still is. I consider myself fortunate not to have parted with it. I could tell when I bought it that it was not quite an "off the rack" CC but the tolerances were pretty standard for the time. Whenever I compare it to a new version, frankly I am kinda' surprised at the difference in the way the component parts fit together and how much more of a finished product it appears to be. Not only is the overall fit and finish much worse now but in some cases the assembled parts are so far off each other they almost look like they came from two different gun models.
In fact while I am grateful that I kept my CC, I regret every other instance where I gave up one of my older handguns for a newer one. I had a Sig made in Germany....don't anymore. Would love to have that one back. Had a Walther made in
Germany....would love to have that one back.
Glocks have never felt right in my hand and I am sure I am preaching to the choir when I say that if it don't fit right in your hand you are never going to like it, never mind love it. The point is, I am a bit concerned about where gun manufacturers are going. They seem to be leaving us in kind of a tough spot. Had they maintained the materials and updated but not changed significantly the manufacturing process sure the same gun would cost us more money today. However to me there is this growing gap between what you get and pay for in a standard offer pistol from almost everybody leaving you looking at custom's which are wildly more expensive. There seems little middle ground anymore.
This reminds me a bit of where we are today with many manufactured products. Many are made off shore in low cost labor pool markets. Companies spend zillions of marketing dollars trying to convince us that their products are just as good as they used to be and there not. They cost less and wear out faster. For some things that is OK.
However I guess the way I think about it....it is not OK for a pistol to be made that way. It just isn't. I was reading a thread here that was specific to a particular handgun model series from a particular supplier that has been around for a long time. I suspect that if they brought back some of the older employees from that same company that had been there 50+ years ago they would not believe the stuff that was going out under what for them was surely a very proud company name.
I shudder to think where this is going to be 20 more years from now if pistol manufacturing continues on the same path it appears to have been on the last 20 years.
As for guys video...frankly I did not like it either. I don't think it made sense to voice that particular viewpoint in that way.
The issue to me is not a 1911 vs a Glock and that was his perspective in the video. Nor did it make sense to me to
characterize the 1911 that way. I would feel the same way about some guy claiming to be an expert characterizing Glocks the same way.
February 22nd, 2012 04:05 AM
Dang, insult the 1911 and the floodgates open, need to calm things down lol. 1911's are a brilliant classic design that has inspired most modern handguns to some degree, and they're the second most attractive handgun out there behind the Browning Hi Power (haha). But they're also low capacity and heavy and expensive and generally not as reliable compared to modern polymer pistols IMO. Just about everyone drinks Kool-Aid of some kind or another, to each their own. Variety is the spice of life and we have a lot of spice available to us in this great country.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
February 22nd, 2012 04:14 AM
Yeager treats his fighting guns as tools rather than accessories.
February 22nd, 2012 06:18 AM
one thing I have learned in life weather it be this hobby or my others,make my own decisions on
what works best for me......That guy in the vids opinion is just one of millions that mean "jack" to me
All that matters is what shoots well for myself and what I believe I can defend myself with best
and in my case its a wheelgun for personnel protection but if I was going to war my glocks and my 1911s
get left behind and my SIG P226 comes to battle w me ..Guy is NOT a well tuned TV personality or a
great youtube spokesperson by any means.....Id rather watch that new young girl Destinee talk about guns than
February 22nd, 2012 01:17 PM
This is the same guy who thinks it is reasonable to have a class do live fire drills with the cameraman downrange by the targets. 'Nuff said; that tells me what I need to know about Yeager's judgment.
“What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia
SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.
February 22nd, 2012 01:30 PM
Well, just my opinion, but I'd rather spend a few extra bucks on a 1969 Camaro SS thats needs a little carb tweeking to run great, than buy a Hyundai that runs great "out of the box" for 100,000 miles with nothing added but gas.
I think it boils down to personal prefferance, and maybe some return on investment.
February 22nd, 2012 01:35 PM
1). A "real" instructor would not bash any gun.
2). He would have more credibility if he did not use foul language.
3). "real" 1911 owners would not take his class
4). How does this video make him look good?
I will not be spending any time or money on his courses or programs. He is certainly full of himself. I would not be surprised if he is in the news someday.
Yes I have 3 1911s I also have 3 Glocks.
February 22nd, 2012 01:54 PM
MrBuckwheat's points are excellent as are C Hawk Glock's, Doodle's, and QKShooter's.
With MrBuckwheat's summation I don't need to watch the video.
If you intend to buy into the goodness of the 1911 just LEAVE IT ALONE! Shoot it awhile. Some brands perhaps require breaking in but don't give in to the temptation to customize it. Don't believe everything you hear or read about what a 1911 "needs" to run right or be accurate. Give the gun a chance in its stock form. Show me a balky 1911 .45 and I'll show you a pistol that has been fiddled with. There's gobs of them out there, lurking in gun shops and gun shows. Or in the gun safes of jazbos who have monkeyed with theirs and want to offload them on the next unsuspecting chump. If the newest Glocks, H&K's, SIG's, etc. were monkeyed with as much as is the poor 1911, none of them would run right either.
The 1911 doesn't need to be sawed on, changed up, modified, tricked out, full-length guide rodded, balanced and blueprinted, chopped and channeled, rolled and pleated, plumbed for nitrous, stuffed with three kinds of cheese with special sauce dribbled on top, or have Joe Champion's name engraved on it along with some sinister sounding model designation such as "Macho Blaster of Doom" in order to give complete shooting satisfaction and years of service. Spending $1000 to $3500 for a 1911 .45 is just insane! If one has the bucks and wants to, then git 'er done, but don't kid yourself into believing it's required or necessary.
I enjoy the original Colt product but have handled and fired a number of inexpensive 1911's that were great and offered good, reliable .45 shooting value to any pistolero.
Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
February 22nd, 2012 02:01 PM
Thinking about it. First it made me angry, because I love 1911s. But I think he just made an attempt at getting some free PR. Or he owns stock in Glock ( if there is such a thing) Update my Glocks are Gen3!
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