Grip Safeties-death trap?

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Thread: Grip Safeties-death trap?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    If you can't operate a particular type of gun the way it was designed to be operated, get a different kind of gun, there are lots and lots of designs out there. I have never had problems with grip safeties in either 1911's or XD's, maybe others have. If one has problems with making a grip safety function, that is hardly the fault of the gun or doesn't make it a death trap.

    My wife doesn't like any type of safety on a gun besides her brain and finger, so she carries guns without them. If one has or thinks they will have an issue with a grip safety don't buy a gun with one. If one thinks they will forget to take the safety off of a gun with one, don't buy one.

    I think lots of this stuff is just folks talking bad about stuff that they either don't like or making excuses for themselves. Kinda like Glocks being unsafe "because" they don't have a selectable safety.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  3. #17
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    There are too many 'shooters' having a problem with 1911 grip safeties to say it's the shooter, although it probably is in a lot of cases
    Actually,in the big scheme of things, more shooters don't have a problem with them than shooters that do.

    I'd say that some of the shooters that do have problems with them are in the vast minority. I have introduced many shooters to the 1911 and upon shooting it, got converted on the spot because they could shoot is so much better than a handgun with a 2 mile long take up in the trigger.

    Now, it may be that those shooters in the vast minority are very vocal on the gun forums and have declared some guns to be death traps. That doesn't make it so, and it also makes the issue seem much more prevalent than it really is,especially when the same story is posted on most gun forums.

    When eleventy gazillion shooters tend to shoot well with a platform and say, .02% of that number of them say they cant or dont, I tend to go with the majority.

    That dosent mean that I dont beleive the .02% have issues with it, I just think that much of it is overstated.
    Or they could be liberal gun owners just whining.



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  4. #18
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    It's not overstated if you pull the trigger and the gun won't fire. That's how I learned I had the problem. The numbers may be large or small, but the significance is still there and still a problem for those that experience the problem. The pinning has too much widespread fame for this to be happening to one or two people.

    I bet I've drawn a 1911 hundreds of times without a problem. But what about those times I have. It's not very reassuring that a gazilion shooters haven't had the problem - they aren't there when I need them.

    Still I don't consider it a death trap. I fixed the problem for me.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I never had a problem with grip safeties, that being said, I don't like any safeties to begin with. It will be the one time I need to shoot and it will not fire for any variety of reasons. My 02 cents.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    While at training and performing one handed manipulations (reloading, clearing malfunctions etc...) strong and support handed, I see guys with XD pistols have problems all the time. Definitely a training issue and with practice you would get good at it, but who knows when the stress level is through the roof. I personally don't see why you would want to add one more possible failure point into the system if you don't have to.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I have never had problems with grip safeties in.. XD's,
    Then one wonders how much you train. I mean TRAIN, as opposed to simply standing on your hind legs on a square range and shooting at your leisure.

    See post #20.

    .

  8. #22
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    I would say that a gun itself is a death trap!

    I know I don't want to be on the wrong end of the muzzle of any gun. YMMV
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  9. #23
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    Everybody take a deep breath. Let's not make this into something it isn't.

    I think the facts support that a significant number do have problems with grip safeties, especially with the 1911, and others do not. We don't really know hard numbers, so we really don't know how many do and how many don't. But we do know some do.

    I think the facts support that hand shapes and grip safety profiles, and maybe some from an incorrect grip, although I can't imagine how you could possibly grip a 1911 incorrectly and cause a safety block, all could contribute to a safety block, especially under stress.

    I don't think it's a matter of hard training; there are those that do train hard with 1911s and don't have grip safety problems. OTOH, we don't know how grip safeties may have been altered either.

    But, that in no way makes a grip safety a death trap. In fact, grip safety probably saved me from a bullet wound.
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  10. #24
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    Try FOF with a 1911 airsoft pistol or any airsoft pistol with a thumb and/or grip saftey. The type of pressure that FOF gives makes all kinds of things go wrong. A living, breathing opponent trying his best to hit you with a shock knife (they really hurt) makes getting a perfect grip on the pistol difficult. Shooting against an attacking opponent exposes flaws in equipment and training that shooting cardboard never will. Just my observations and experiences.
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  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    I gotta agree with HotGuns if you have trouble with a particular platform get a different one. Doesn't mean that the one You had a problem with is bad, just means it doesn't work for you. For those with having problems with your cloths, does your jacket interfere with your grip? A few weeks ago I was practicing and swept my cover garment back but caught my thumb on my vest and ended up drawing vest and gun at the same time, I was real slow getting a shot off because I did not want to shoot without a proper grip.

    I would like to see a picture of the high grip a couple of you have talked about that failed to engage the grip saftey. I have been trying to grip my 1911 different ways and I cannot grip in such in such a way that the saftey is not engaged.
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  12. #26
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    Elk Hunter,

    Don't have a pic, a lot of my grip blocks occurred in training and I didn't stop to take a pic. It can occur, for me, when I get a high grip with my thumb over the thumb safety. I doubt any other grip would or could produce the problem.

    If you have beefy hands, it's very likely you won't have a problem. The only ones I've seen this occur with is people with more slender, i.e. non-beefy hands.

    OTOH, people don't pay gunsmiths to pin grip safeties in 1911s for no reason.

    Plus, people that want to carry a 1911 and have grip safety issues have other options than changing guns. Some have the grip safety pinned. Some simply disable it by filing the tab until the grip safety is either almost or completely disabled. Others might find a different grip safety profile solves the problem.
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  13. #27
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    Lightbulb

    I’ve been building 1911’s professionally for over 25 years now. I’m certified by American Handgunner Magazine as one of the “Top 100” Custom Pistolsmiths in America. I’ve built guns that have won National & World Championships and that have set records for Speed and Accuracy. I’ve also trained people to become National & World Champion shooters. I’ve put well over ¼ million rounds downrange with 1911’s alone, both while training and competing at the World Class level…

    I’m also the guy who said, “Grip safeties are a death trap on a 1911!!”

    But hey, why take my word for it?

    Gunsite makes a “Dropped” thumb safety for 1911’s...

    Novak spent all the time and money on a patent that eliminates the grip safety all together...

    Lot's of Top Shooters pin them or de-activate them...
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  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    I’ve been building 1911’s professionally for over 25 years now. I’m certified by American Handgunner Magazine as one of the “Top 100” Custom Pistolsmiths in America. I’ve built guns that have won National & World Championships and that have set records for Speed and Accuracy. I’ve also trained people to become National & World Champion shooters. I’ve put well over ¼ million rounds downrange with 1911’s alone, both while training and competing at the World Class level…

    I’m also the guy who said, “Grip safeties are a death trap on a 1911!!”

    But hey, why take my word for it?

    Gunsite makes a “Dropped” thumb safety for 1911’s...

    Novak spent all the time and money on a patent that eliminates the grip safety all together...

    Lot's of Top Shooters pin them or de-activate them...

    Ahhhh because you can sell all kinds of things to shooters in particular competition shooters if they think it will give them an edge. (or if you say it's tactical) Just think of all the things you have tried or done for other people in your 25 years.

    Shooters are not unlike fishermen and golfers and......

    Just sayin

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elk Hunter View Post
    Ahhhh because you can sell all kinds of things to shooters in particular competition shooters if they think it will give them an edge. (or if you say it's tactical) Just think of all the things you have tried or done for other people in your 25 years.

    Shooters are not unlike fishermen and golfers and......

    Just sayin
    It is also interesting to note that DRM has carried a 1911 as 'his' carry piece for quite some time.

    And while it is true that many things can be sold that make competitors think they have an edge, that doesn't mean that grip safeties are not problematic for some. But we're comparing 'some' experience with some rounds fired, to a man, DRM, that's carried 1911s as a SD until recently, has put a quarter of a million rounds down range through one, has built 1911s, one for Mas Ayoob, and I'll take the liberty of saying DRM won, I believe it was the 1911 National IDPA class he was in.

    I think if he says a lot of competitors pin or otherwise deactivate their safeties, AND I said the same thing based on an entirely different source, I think we have to at least recognize there's something to it.

    I don't know that I would concur that it's a death trap, but I know it is problematic for a lot of people and have seen it with my own eyes. I have one of Gunsite's dropped thumb safeties.

    DRM, thanks, it was Novak that I was referring to about making a 1911 without a grip safety and I couldn't remember who it was.
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  16. #30
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    Ahhhh because you can sell all kinds of things to shooters in particular competition shooters if they think it will give them an edge. (or if you say it's tactical) Just think of all the things you have tried or done for other people in your 25 years.
    Nope, they were designed to address a specific problem. The same one we are talking about here.

    But I agree, lot’s of snake oil salesmen out there…
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