Grip Safeties-death trap? - Page 4

Grip Safeties-death trap?

This is a discussion on Grip Safeties-death trap? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by azchevy Well if you have no confidence in your 1911 and think it a deathtrap... sell it or safe it. There are ...

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Thread: Grip Safeties-death trap?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Well if you have no confidence in your 1911 and think it a deathtrap... sell it or safe it. There are literally hundreds of other choices out there... problem solved. In 30+ years of 1911 ownership I personally have never seen or experienced the problem firsthand and I have a LOT of rounds downrange with the platform. So get something that works for you... problem solved.
    Already taken care of. Thanks.
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  2. #47
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    but honestly sounds like a design flaw in your field jacket and not your 1911 I had a primer pop once on my smith wheelgun and it moved into a position to lock the cylinder dead. Death trap.... once in a lifetime occurrence.... should I blame the revolver?

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I do not carry a 1911. I own one for collector value. I honestly think that if you are having the "issue" then maybe the 1911 is not for you, get another weapon that you shoot proficiently and are confident in. It is that simple. Any safety can be a deathtrap. Especially if you do not train with it and become proficient with it. You can draw the 1911 and have the perfect grip to depress the grip safety but forget to thumb sweep or miss the thumb safety..... does that make it a death trap or does that make it a training issue? If you have the issue, and you can't train your way out of it, get a new tool. It is that simple.
    Choosing another gun is only one option. You can 'adjust' the grip safety so it releases much earlier, you can adjust it until it is deactivated completely; you can have it pinned; some competitors put a small band around the grip to hold the grip safety disengaged.

    This isn't a training problem - it's a hand/grip interface issue. And the problem won't go away no matter how long the 1911 has been around or how much we love them as I do.

    And here's yet another solution. This is a 1911 I built about 10 years ago. I did all the work, all the fitting, went to all that trouble to see if it would help with the problem - it did.

    Here's the gun finished in hard chrome:


    And here's what's different and unique about it:


    The beavertail was cut away from the grip safety with a jeweler's saw. I hand fitted the beavertail to the frame and silver soldered it to the frame with extremely high strength silver solder.

    Here's how it looks from the rear:


    So there are other options besides changing guns. It all depends on what you want to carry.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    but honestly sounds like a design flaw in your field jacket and not your 1911 I had a primer pop once on my smith wheelgun and it moved into a position to lock the cylinder dead. Death trap.... once in a lifetime occurrence.... should I blame the revolver?
    If it goes down at the wrong time, it is the last-in-a-lifetime occurrance. Since the military has been issuing the M-65 since Hitler was a roadguard, what does that tell you?
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  5. #50
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    Yeah, and dead men tell no tales...

    Kinda interesting that two guys on this thread have had the same EXACT problem. But hey, if you don't believe us then it's not true.

    And it's kinda interesting that Novak calls their Patented 1-pc. backstrap/grip safety eliminator (get this):

    "The Answer"
    The observant person would be able to see that both problems which were unrelated to each other were caused by a field jacket flap.... maybe they should pin them back or remove them altogether too....

    sorry, just had to after you posted your extensive resume just to validate your point

  6. #51
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    If it goes down at the wrong time, it is the last-in-a-lifetime occurrance. Since the military has been issuing the M-65 since Hitler was a roadguard, what does that tell you?
    The M-65 is made by the cheapest bidder?

  7. #52
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post

    So there are other options besides changing guns. It all depends on what you want to carry.
    I agree with this. However to call it a death trap.... I am starting to suspect those field jackets....

  8. #53
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    Lightbulb

    I'm not a fan of grip safeties but I wouldn't go so far as to call them death traps.
    Well, what else would you call it?

    What if (God forbid) you did have to pull your gun out on a Bad Guy? Most likely you’d already be behind the power curve on the draw and trying to play catch up. Then your gun doesn’t go bang, what would you do then? Ask for an Alibi? Ask for a reshoot or ???

    My musings are just limited to Glocks though. How many of those high speed guys are going to find that in 20 years all that range time spent with their sweaty mitts wrapped around those plastic handles have contributed to their prostates growing to the size and consistency of cantaloupes?
    I never thought about that. Seriously, kinda scary...

    I personally would not be afraid to carry a gun that had 4 or 5 bobbled every 100 rounds. Just learn immediate action drills and get back in the fight.
    Are you on crack?

    The observant person would be able to see that both problems which were unrelated to each other were caused by a field jacket flap.... maybe they should pin them back or remove them altogether too....
    That wouldn't of happened on the perfect gun (which has yet to be made I might add).
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I agree with this. However to call it a death trap.... I am starting to suspect those field jackets....
    I think the greater point is that if this could happen with field jacket, could it not happen with almost any cover garment?

    I'm not saying that condemns the 1911 design, but knowing this has happened to two people, strongly suggests it's probably happened to others as well.

    I must say that's not reassuring to know something that simple can completely disable my gun.

    Along the same lines, Ayoob tells of a LEO that carried a snubby in his coat pocket and when he tried to defend himself with it, it wouldn't fire. Turns out pocket lint had got under the hammer and it wouldn't cock. I think the guy died as a result.
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  10. #55
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    Thumbs up

    Tangle! That's a BRILLIANT idea of the two piece grip safety!

    Sorry for the big print, I just got excited...

    Can you email me some pics? Is that your idea? We need to talk, thanks.
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  11. #56
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    The 1911 platform is the gun you take into battle......it has with stood all the elements of terrain from all of the wars we have participated in since it's adoption into our military. It's not a polymer or a synthetic that can be prone to breakage... it is a Battle Gun.....some here may not like this platform but it has proven itself and works.

    That's it..............

    To say "The 1911 Sucks"..... is admitting there's no cure for stupidity.....IMO.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    Tangle! That's a BRILLIANT idea of the two piece grip safety!

    Sorry for the big print, I just got excited...

    Can you email me some pics? Is that your idea? We need to talk, thanks.
    My idea exclusively, well, never seen or heard of it done before. I'll send all the pics I have of it, which isn't that many.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    The 1911 platform is the gun you take into battle......it has with stood all the elements of terrain from all of the wars we have participated in since it's adoption into our military. It's not a polymer or a synthetic that can be prone to breakage... it is a Battle Gun.....some here may not like this platform but it has proven itself and works.

    That's it..............

    To say "The 1911 Sucks"..... is admitting there's no cure for stupidity.....IMO.
    So whose military is currently taking it into battle, or has in the last thirty years?
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    It does tell us something. But what it doesn't tell us is why they changed the grip safety profile. It also doesn't tell us why top competitors have the grip safeties pinned, a common practice.

    Nor does it mean people aren't having grip safety problems.
    Probably the same reason top competitors have very light triggers, large mag wells and other fancy stuff added to their race guns. Because it gives them an edge in competition over a gun that came off the shelf in the gun shop.

    Loosing a competition because you didn't get a proper grip on a gun and the grip safety wasn't engaged properly certainly isn't a death trap, it is a flub up in a competition by the person holding the gun. Could this happen in a SD situation, sure, just like you could miss your target in a SD situation like in competition. That isn't the guns fault either.

    Because people choose to pin grip safeties on 1911's doesn't mean that it is a design flaw or death trap. They are simply looking for a mechanical advantage to overcome a shortcoming on their own part.

    Is it Glock's fault that my son's hand can't engage the trigger safety because his hands aren't long enough. Nope. Should I "pin" the trigger safety so that he can work the gun without having the ability to get a proper grip, absolutely not. I simply don't let him shoot a Glock. I put a gun in his hand that fits him. If a 1911 doesn't fit you and you have to make mechanical changes to it, don't blame the gun. Make the changes and go about your business, or find a different gun.

    As far as taking the word of one of the top 100 gunsmiths for it. Well, folks might like your work and appreciate what you can do for them, fantastic, keep up the good work. However as has been stated previously, John Browning's design had been used for over 100 years and there are many more guns floating around this world which work perfectly fine in the originally designed configuration. There are lots of manufacturers that today put out lots and lots of 1911's the way they were designed. Are they all putting out death traps to the public? If so, you should convince them all to stop.
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    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    Then one wonders how much you train. I mean TRAIN, as opposed to simply standing on your hind legs on a square range and shooting at your leisure.

    See post #20.

    .
    If one grips a gun properly every time they grab the gun, then one doesn't have to worry about it. If you have to work at getting a proper grip, you might have the wrong gun in your hand. There are lots to choose from, pick one that fits and works for you.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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