Grip Safeties-death trap?

[Elk Hunter]

So whose military is currently taking it into battle, or has in the last thirty years?

Mike I don't think it has anything to do with the 1911, it has more to do with NATO, our friends all use 9mm. not really part of the debate

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[oneshot]

One can rely upon either experience or theory in answering this question. Based on my personal experience, which involves owning and shooting about a dozen 1911s over the last 40 years, I've never had a problem with a grip safety preventing me from firing the gun. Based upon theory, I can see the possibility that a mechanical failure or shooter grip problem could block the gun from firing in a time of emergency. Combining these two considerations, I have to conclude that being blocked from shooting by a faulty grip safety is a rare event - maybe a 1 in 10,000 chance or even less.

So the use of the term "death trap" for this is overblown and exaggerated. With 1911s, I am more concerned about forgetting to release the thumb safety under stress than a failure of the grip safety. If you forget to release the thumb safety and lose a couple of seconds while someone is attacking you, the problem could be fatal for you. For this reason I'm not a big fan of thumb safeties on a carry gun, but don't mind a grip safety.

^^^^^^^^^^^^I would basically agree^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


With pogo2 on this.
Having said that, I look at safeties on a defensive pistol, as something that I essentially do not need, and its just something that can break/fail.
It is a mechanical device, much like all the working components on a car, which at any given time can fail,

[Mike1956]

Mike I don't think it has anything to do with the 1911, it has more to do with NATO, our friends all use 9mm. not really part of the debate

I didn't introduce that part of the debate, but by your logic, shouldn't 7.62x51 be our military's dominant rifle caliber?

[TSiWRX]

Yup.

But what hasn't been mentioned yet is, the XD's slide cannot be fully retracted if the grip safety is not engaged. The problems with this range from annoyance at having to adjust to a full grasp of the pistol when trying to lock the slide back, to an inability to perform certain malfunction clearance techniques under pressure.

Then one wonders how much you train. I mean TRAIN, as opposed to simply standing on your hind legs on a square range and shooting at your leisure.

See post #20.

This is an honest question - which malfunctions cannot be performed, under pressure, with the XD/XDm platform?

I'm a relative newbie, so, perhaps, the induced stress/pressure of the shot-timer buzzer and the physical intimidation of stepping into training classes may raise my heart-rate a little more than a seasoned shooter, but I won't lie: I know that it's just a class atmosphere, where I am expected to fail, albeit safely, and with the help of the instructors, overcome my failures.

But all the same, I keep hearing of this pitfall of the XD/XDm, and yet, I have been unable to meet a situation - again, yet - for which I have not been able to properly remediate the failure.

Sure, it's quite possible that I just haven't reached the proper training tempo, and thus have not yet met up with enough stress to cause me to flub. Nevertheless, I have trained hard enough that my palms bore bruises of the precise imprint of my magazine base-pads; and in that very same class, I put more than a few nicks into my wedding band (OK, so I should have probably taken it off prior to class, like I do for H2H/combatives, but honestly, how would I then know if that ring is going to get caught up on some piece of my actual daily gear? my training is framed around the realities of my daily life - how I dress every day, etc. - in the hopes that if I had to fight, I can rely on "default," if I had to). In another class, on a double-feed malfunction (we induced these, "randomly," by using spent casings, asking our partners to mix up our magazines for us), support/reaction/weak-hand only, in the heat of the moment (see what I mean about being more nervous than a more seasoned shooter? ), I ripped the magazine out of the magwell with my teeth...sure, it looked macho-awesome to my classmates, but upon reflection, it would have been tremendously embarrassing to have had to explain to my wife, why I came back from a day's outing with one tooth missing.

In all honesty, I really would like to see what kind of malfunction, and under what situations, would make it impossible for me to properly remediate my XDm.

So far, the only such issues I've witnessed are shooters who are not familiar enough with their firearms - be it an XD, a 1911, Beretta, a M&P, or a Glock. Alternatively, it's users who made a mistake in their choice of firearm in that their personal anatomic/physical limitations made it awkward or even impossible for them to properly "run" their gun, especially when it came to how they chose to run their gun, for the more complex malfunctions.

[azchevy]

So whose military is currently taking it into battle, or has in the last thirty years?

if your patch is a correct representation of your past.... yours.... at least MEU(SOC) is still using them

[Mike1956]

if your patch is a correct representation of your past.... yours.... at least MEU(SOC) is still using them

That is an army unit crest in my avatar. Eight hundred US Marines still use specially-modified 1911s. How about everybody else?

[suntzu]

That is an army unit crest in my avatar. Eight hundred US Marines still use specially-modified 1911s. How about everybody else?

504 inf right

[Mike1956]

504 inf right

Yes, I was in Weapons Platoon, A Company, 1st Bn from 1978 to 1981. That was where I ETSed from. 22nd Inf in Europe before that.

[Mograthi]

If I am not mistaken Browning's original design did not include the grip safety and it was the cavalry that placed that requirement on the pistol.

I own a few 1911's and use them in competition and I have never had the problem of the grip safety not engaging I tend to use a high grip with the thumb over the thumb safety, not saying folks don't just that I don't. I looked into pinning the safety just because it was something a lot of competition shooters do but after using mine I found it to not be necessary for me.

[deadguy]

Unless DRM is this same smith, there is another one living in AZ that carries a "pinned" grip safety. Golf, anyone?

[azchevy]

That is an army unit crest in my avatar. Eight hundred US Marines still use specially-modified 1911s. How about everybody else?

So the army and marines are not in the same military? Which two countries do they represent? I am confused now. I was under the impression they were both part of the United States military. School me.

[Mike1956]

So the army and marines are not in the same military? Which two countries do they represent? I am confused now. I was under the impression they were both part of the United States military. School me.

I'm not sure why you are confused.

[azchevy]

You asked which military still used the 1911 in war. I pointed out the us military which includes both the marines and the army. Regardless of how many or what technicality you wish to argue. The statement is correct. I consider that debate closed based on my presentation of factual evidence.

[Mike1956]

You asked which military still used the 1911 in war. I pointed out the us military which includes both the marines and the army. Regardless of how many or what technicality you wish to argue. The statement is correct. I consider that debate closed based on my presentation of factual evidence.

If you are happy, I am happy.

[archie72490]

I did my apprenticeship with a gunsmith that specialized in custom 1911s (and s&w revolvers) along with all of the other work that came into the shop. I only ever had one grip safety problem out of the 1911s I test fired, the problem occurred on a gun that had been custom fit for a woman with very slender hands and for some reason when I gripped it with my beefy hands it just didn't engage properly with my normal grip. more often than not the grip safety made me concentrate on getting a very good correct grip on the weapon. that being said I carry my gen 4 block 19 because I feel the most comfortable with it, and I don't want to have to think about getting a perfect grip and switching off the thumb safety in a high stress situation. like other people have said, everyone has different hands and if something doesn't work for you then get something else that does. When people ask me for advice on buying a handgun the first thing I tell them is to go to a range that rents guns or have friends bring their guns so you can test them and find the one you feel most comfortable with.