It seems to me, S&W has changed the trigger characteristics of the M&P....

It seems to me, S&W has changed the trigger characteristics of the M&P....

This is a discussion on It seems to me, S&W has changed the trigger characteristics of the M&P.... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yesterday was a short day for me, so when I got home, I 'loaded' up and took off to the range to shoot for a ...

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Thread: It seems to me, S&W has changed the trigger characteristics of the M&P....

  1. #1
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    It seems to me, S&W has changed the trigger characteristics of the M&P....

    Yesterday was a short day for me, so when I got home, I 'loaded' up and took off to the range to shoot for a change.

    C Hawk Glock has blathered on and on and on and on about the M&P Pro trigger. So I checked the display case and there was an M&P Pro, so I asked to look at it. C Hawk Glock is right.

    The Pro trigger has an entirely different feel to it than my std. M&P with the DCEAK. I'd take the Pro trigger over my M&P/DCEAK without a second thought. Bear in mind I only got to do some handling and dry fire, but the difference, at least to me is bill board size.

    The Pro trigger, at least this one, has a break, and I know this teeters on sacrilege, every bit as sharp, clean, and crisp as most 1911 triggers. I'm not saying it's equivalent, I'm just saying it has that same proverbial 'glass rod' break. I still don't know how gun writers came up with that term, do they sit around breaking a lot of glass rods or something? Anyway...

    Also, the trigger pull weight has been reduced in the Pro. S&W specs it at 4.5 lbs and that's the same that Sig specs their SA triggers, well IIRC, Sig uses a spec of 4.4 lbs.

    Then the reset. I can't say enough about the break of the Pro trigger. But back to the reset. Did I mention the Pro trigger breaks like a glass rod? Well, the reset, I did say that the Pro trigger break rivals a 1911 trigger didn't I? Well the reset is - have I mentioned the Pro trigger pull weight is lighter than the std. M&P trigger? Well, on to the trigger reset. Remember me saying I'd take the Pro trigger break over my std M&P/DCEAK any day? But the reset is - you suppose Apex has improved the DCEAK to be more like the break of the Pro trigger?

    The reset stinks to the high heavens! There I said it, I hope your happy now . That has got to be the worst reset on any pistol on earth. And, the std M&P reset is even worse! It's long, too light, and uneventful when reset finally does occur. I short stroked the std. trigger twice in dry fire .

    Well, maybe if you used the proper tactical trigger management, it wouldn't be a problem. On to the std M&P trigger.

    It too has a crisp break. Not quite as sharp as the Pro, but nice. I guess I've covered the reset for the std. Anything further would just be plain ol fuming! Why would S&W develop such a great trigger break and couple it with one of the worst resets on earth!

    Who would want such a contraption. Not me! I mean I probably couldn't even shoot the thing. Why would I possibly want something like that? I'd have to learn a whole new trigger management discipline. I can't do that!

    I think I'm going to trade my FNX9 for a standard M&P fs 9 today. I'd get the Pro, but it only comes in a 5" barrel and probably there aren't as many holsters available for the Pro, and S&W seems to emphasize it as a competition gun.

    Oh, Bud's price for a Pro - $624. At my local shop - $599. The std. M&P $499 and $489.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Mattmann's Avatar
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    Great write up there tangle. I haven't had any problems out if my m&p trigger yet but I am seriously considering a apex kit.

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    Hey Mattman, thanks!

    I don't really have the trigger time with a new M&P to be sure, just some dry fire, but if my M&P trigger breaks like I think the new ones do - gonna check it out again, I don't think I'd add a DCEAK.

    BTW, a LGS has a 'range program' with a distributor and they are going to have some M&Ps arrive today. I can actually shoot these range guns without having to buy one. I may go by and shoot one.
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    Senior Member Array Mattmann's Avatar
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    Sounds great! Please post a follow up and I will check it out. I have a full size. 45 that I have had for a couple of years and a 9c that I have only had for a few months. I love both of them but I will have to compare triggers when I get home.

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    This may be the old, my M&P, versus the newer models. My older model needed some help. The newer std models are distinctly different. They feel much more like a 1911 break. Most striker fired pistols have that drag-break feel. The Pro, especially, has a press-break feel.
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    My wife has an M&P Pro, and the trigger is just as Tangle described. Including the mushy reset.

    APEX makes a drop in part called the "RAM" (Reset Assist Mechanism) which perks up the reset of the trigger quite a bit. It only works on guns without a thumb safety and without the internal lock. Installation is painless and the reset is worlds better.

    Matt
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    Thanks Matt, it's good to know I wasn't just me. I have a RAM kit in my M&P. All I can tell it does is give a bit of tactile feel to the trigger at the reset point. The reset remains long and too light but it does give you something at the end.

    Is that your impression?
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    Yeah, it's still much less pronounced than the reset in my Glocks even with the RAM.

    Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    The reset stinks to the high heavens! There I said it, I hope your happy now . That has got to be the worst reset on any pistol on earth. And, the std M&P reset is even worse! It's long, too light, and uneventful when reset finally does occur. I short stroked the std. trigger twice in dry fire .

    Well, maybe if you used the proper tactical trigger management, it wouldn't be a problem. On to the std M&P trigger.

    It too has a crisp break. Not quite as sharp as the Pro, but nice. I guess I've covered the reset for the std. Anything further would just be plain ol fuming! Why would S&W develop such a great trigger break and couple it with one of the worst resets on earth!

    Who would want such a contraption. Not me! I mean I probably couldn't even shoot the thing. Why would I possibly want something like that? I'd have to learn a whole new trigger management discipline. I can't do that!

    I think I'm going to trade my FNX9 for a standard M&P fs 9 today. I'd get the Pro, but it only comes in a 5" barrel and probably there aren't as many holsters available for the Pro, and S&W seems to emphasize it as a competition gun.

    Oh, Bud's price for a Pro - $624. At my local shop - $599. The std. M&P $499 and $489.
    "Tangle" I'd like to throw my 2 cent opinion in here as well. I own an M&P compact. When I bought it I was on the fence for a couple of weeks between a Glock 19 and the M&P. Finally resolved myself to the M&P for the "pointability" factor and the fact that it was made in America.

    My first trip to the range, I could not stand the trigger. Gritty, too much pre-travel, and as you mentioned a sloppy, no a horrible reset. I fired 100 rounds that first trip and started searching for a "trigger job". After a ton of research, and everyone and their brother telling me to get the Apex drop in kit (which I really didn't want to do trigger work on my EDC for reliability as well as possible legal ramifications if I would ever be involved in a shoot.

    I settled on Burwell gunsmithing in Pennsylvania. Any Google search on the internet about M&P's will eventually lead to Burwells site. He appears to be the preminent M&P "doctor" as he has stopped working on anything except M&P's

    Burwell Gunsmithing- Your M&P specialist

    I set up an appointment shipped my pistol to him, and had it back in about 10 days. It breaks crisp and clean at 4 1/2 lbs (I don't know if it's glass rod breaking clean...I've never broken a glass rod), but the pre-travel is gone, and the reset is comparable to a 1911. I could not be more pleased, and I've had it back just a little over a year now.

    I guess what I'm driving at here, is for about the same money you can buy a standard M&P and send it off for an outstanding trigger job for $65 plus shipping, rather than spending the extra $$ on a M&P Pro and still have a sloppy reset. This is not an advertisment for Burwell's I'm just telling you what I did and how happy I am. I'm sure any QUALITY gunsmith could do a trigger job that would make you happy.
    Last edited by Stubborn; February 24th, 2012 at 11:34 AM. Reason: add link
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    "Tangle" I'd like to throw my 2 cent opinion in here as well. I own an M&P compact. When I bought it I was on the fence for a couple of weeks between a Glock 19 and the M&P. Finally resolved myself to the M&P for the "pointability" factor and the fact that it was made in America.

    My first trip to the range, I could not stand the trigger. Gritty, too much pre-travel, and as you mentioned a sloppy, no a horrible reset. I fired 100 rounds that first trip and started searching for a "trigger job". After a ton of research, and everyone and their brother telling me to get the Apex drop in kit (which I really didn't want to do trigger work on my EDC for reliability as well as possible legal ramifications if I would ever be involved in a shoot.

    I settled on Burwell gunsmithing in Pennsylvania. Any Google search on the internet about M&P's will eventually lead to Burwells site. He appears to be the preminent M&P "doctor" as he has stopped working on anything except M&P's

    Burwell Gunsmithing- Your M&P specialist

    I set up an appointment shipped my pistol to him, and had it back in about 10 days. It breaks crisp and clean at 4 1/2 lbs (I don't know if it's glass rod breaking clean...I've never broken a glass rod), but the pre-travel is gone, and the reset is comparable to a 1911. I could not be more pleased, and I've had it back just a little over a year now.

    I guess what I'm driving at here, is for about the same money you can buy a standard M&P and send it off for an outstanding trigger job for $65 plus shipping, rather than spending the extra $$ on a M&P Pro and still have a sloppy reset. This is not an advertisment for Burwell's I'm just telling you what I did and how happy I am. I'm sure any QUALITY gunsmith could do a trigger job that would make you happy.
    Burwell triggers are good and in the M&P camp are typically known as the other option. You know why he only works on M&P? Because he don't have to work on anything else with how many of these that are being sold. It's funny but they don't even work on 1911's anymore!

    Burwell Gunsmithing- Your M&P specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    ....I settled on Burwell gunsmithing in Pennsylvania....He appears to be the preeminent M&P "doctor" as he has stopped working on anything except M&P's...
    I think the part in bold speaks loudly. Makes me wonder why M&Ps need so much work????

    And not to promote Glocks, but they simply don't need any work to have a good trigger. $26 can give them a better trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    ....I set up an appointment shipped my pistol to him, and had it back in about 10 days. It breaks crisp and clean at 4 1/2 lbs (I don't know if it's glass rod breaking clean...I've never broken a glass rod), but the pre-travel is gone, and the reset is comparable to a 1911. I could not be more pleased, and I've had it back just a little over a year now.
    Wow, very impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    ....I guess what I'm driving at here, is for about the same money you can buy a standard M&P and send it off for an outstanding trigger job for $65 plus shipping, rather than spending the extra $$ on a M&P Pro and still have a sloppy reset. This is not an advertisment for Burwell's I'm just telling you what I did and how happy I am. I'm sure any QUALITY gunsmith could do a trigger job that would make you happy.
    Hey, no worry about it being an ad for Burwell's - good to know.

    But you hit on the problem with sending a gun for work. I would cost me $499 for a std M&P, $65 for the work, $60 to ship the gun one way, and depending on the contract the guy has with UPS/FedEx, could cost that much for return shipping. That's quite a bit of money. Still like you point out for the additional money, you get both the reset and trigger pull improved.

    Well, I guess on the Pro the only thing that needs fixin' is the reset. Once the reset is fixed, pre-travel almost fades as an issue.

    Thanks for posting that - now I've really got some head scratching to do!
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    You're exactly right, and from what I understand he was very well known for his 1911 work in the competition circles.
    I love my M&P but I absolutely hated that factory trigger. This was the first "custom" trigger job I had ever had done.
    It has made me a believer, I've since had a trigger job done on my hunting rifle, great results also.

    "Tangle" you're thinking right, if I remember correctly I spent $50 with Fed-ex to ship to him, but his return shipping was only $38. and was Fed-ex also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I think the part in bold speaks loudly. Makes me wonder why M&Ps need so much work????

    And not to promote Glocks, but they simply don't need any work to have a good trigger. $26 can give them a better trigger.
    Tangle,

    I really don't think it's a fact that M&P's need a lot of work, it's more that their popularity has really burst onto the scene. Thats like me saying why is everyone and their mother a Glock Armorer they must need a lot of repairs?

    They are two pistols that the pro's carry these days. Glock and M&P, both are fantastic with their own pro's and con's.
    Last edited by C hawk Glock; February 24th, 2012 at 11:03 PM.
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    I think you hit the nail on the head, I don't think it's because they are that prone to breaking or have need of repair, as much as it is proof that they have a terrible trigger IMO
    People told me I should have waited, the trigger would have smoothed out in time, I even heard I should have dry-fired it a couple thousand times and that would have helped the issue. I guess I'm just not that patient, 10 days and I had exactly what I wanted, but I had to pay for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head, I don't think it's because they are that prone to breaking or have need of repair, as much as it is proof that they have a terrible trigger IMO
    Exactly. The thread is not about reliability at all. It's about a superb break and, as you put it, a terrible reset. To me, the reset is problematic primarily because it is too light and long. Either by itself might not be an issue, but the two together are too close to a short stroke under stress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    ...People told me I should have waited, the trigger would have smoothed out in time, I even heard I should have dry-fired it a couple thousand times and that would have helped the issue. I guess I'm just not that patient, 10 days and I had exactly what I wanted, but I had to pay for it.
    You did the right thing. The trigger might have smoothed out with time, it might not. Those are hardened parts; they don't polish easily or quickly. Plus, no matter how much you shot it or dry fired it, it would still have an awful reset.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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