Range Report -- Kahr PM9 9mm sub-compact (ongoing)

This is a discussion on Range Report -- Kahr PM9 9mm sub-compact (ongoing) within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Interesting that you are have some of the same probelms to feed the next round. I carry Kahr's CW9 and in shooting at the range ...

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Thread: Range Report -- Kahr PM9 9mm sub-compact (ongoing)

  1. #16
    New Member Array no1_gun's Avatar
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    Interesting that you are have some of the same probelms to feed the next round. I carry Kahr's CW9 and in shooting at the range I've noticed that in FTF the incoming round if not angled upwards correctly it would jam. It mostly occurs in loading the first round and dropping the slide. It requires a specific amount of forward force to push the round into the chamber. Too much has the same result in jamming as well. For carry ammo I usually carry Federal Hydroshoks 124 grain +P+ and the slide goes too fast for the magazine to load a round in reliably. I'm forced to carry standard pressure rounds in it. Also I'm having probelms with the frame and slide fit. The gun has considerably loosed up. First purchased it was tight and now rattles with the action closed. The slide also goes up and down as well at the muzzle when action is closed. This has me wondering if the frame and its metal rails will fail. Love carrying it.

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  3. #17
    Member Array xsquidgator's Avatar
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    I bought a Kahr CW9 a few days ago and am up to about 350 rounds through it (all Walmart Winchester FMJ range ammo plus one magazine of 4 GoldDot HPs to see if it would work - did fine).

    I lost count of the FTF "jams" upon racking the slide on the first round of a magazine, but, I'm not too worried since without exception pulling the slide back a hair and letting go has caused it to feed that first round.

    No other problems at all though, knock on wood. This is the first HG I've had which I disassembled and cleaned prior to the first range trip of 230 rounds. Followed that with cleaning and shot another 100-150 more followed by cleaning, with the only feed problem as mentioned above. It's very early for this gun but I don't see any worrisome wear areas inside yet. There are signs of breaking or wearing in on the plastic frame. Still feels a little stiff but I'm pleased with the reliability, provided I have a second or two to make the pistol ready. I feel alright enough about its reliability now after a few days and just under 400 rounds to replace my trusty Bersa 380 Thunder in my pocket holster with this Kahr 1/2-plastic gun.

  4. #18
    Member Array Falsemap's Avatar
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    No offense ment, but to me, too many FTF to count doesn't make for a reliable self defense pistol. I can't see taking the extra time in a self defense situation to rack the slide back to get the gun to fire. IMO a CCW pistol needs to be 100% reliable. I have a Kahr MK9 that has exactly the same kind of FTF that CCW9mm, and others describe. Sounds like a design flaw to me. I'm in the process of deciding if I should dump the Kahr or send it back for a fix. I've been leaning twards sending it back, if Kahr will do it for free including the shipping. I do like the little gun, would love to have a 9mm that small, but I would never carry it until it is 100%. I have other guns that are reliable for CCW, my Walter .380, North American .32, and my Glocks, so I could tinker with the Kahr. So far though, I'm not happy. 400+ rounds to get it to function? Wow!

  5. #19
    Member Array xsquidgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falsemap View Post
    No offense ment, but to me, too many FTF to count doesn't make for a reliable self defense pistol. I can't see taking the extra time in a self defense situation to rack the slide back to get the gun to fire. IMO a CCW pistol needs to be 100% reliable. I have a Kahr MK9 that has exactly the same kind of FTF that CCW9mm, and others describe. Sounds like a design flaw to me. I'm in the process of deciding if I should dump the Kahr or send it back for a fix. I've been leaning twards sending it back, if Kahr will do it for free including the shipping. I do like the little gun, would love to have a 9mm that small, but I would never carry it until it is 100%. I have other guns that are reliable for CCW, my Walter .380, North American .32, and my Glocks, so I could tinker with the Kahr. So far though, I'm not happy. 400+ rounds to get it to function? Wow!
    Well, I thought about that, but I'm willing to give the CW9 a chance. I'm comfortable going around with one in the chamber, and in the 350 or so rounds I've put through mine since getting it a couple of days ago, it has never had a FTF while it's moving the slide in double action (firing). At least with FMJ ammo it has also always so far immediately loaded correctly when I pulled the slide back again and let the spring slam it forward. Not ideal, but I suspect some of this may be just b/c it's a small gun.

    Now, I do have a related something I'm trying to figure out. I have a "fullsize" SW3906 that sits in the nightstand that I normally leave with Speer GoldDot HPs. I tried cycling those through my Kahr CW9 and so far no amount of "reasonable" fiddling has gotton it to feed - it just doesn't like the hollowpoint nose in my feed ramp. I'm going to try it at the range, but from the looks of it this ammo just may not work in this gun, I'll have to see.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falsemap View Post
    No offense ment, but to me, too many FTF to count doesn't make for a reliable self defense pistol.
    Me, too. No way will I carry it, unless/until it's completely (~99%+) reliable.

    If this PM9 cannot be made to get over its problems, it's outta here. Too bad, as it's a 9mm, quite lite, and can nicely handle the heavy punch of 500 ft-lb hot loads. Am still mulling. This weekend might allow for a few hundred more rounds through it. Though, if it doesn't start getting reliable, I will be calling Kahr to see what is to be done. Perhaps the MK9 will be the alternative; though, a refund or exchange for another pistol at the dealer isn't out of the question. We'll see.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #21
    New Member Array no1_gun's Avatar
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    Has anyone had any work done on thier Kahr to make it more reliable? Novak's offers a reliablity package for the Kahr's for $125. Has anyone have thier Kahr customized? Is it worth spending the extra money? I would like to hear your opinion. Link is below.

    http://www.novaksights.com/function_options.htm#KAHR

  8. #22
    Member Array chris s's Avatar
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    I have a PM9 that was in the recall range- I sent the barrel back for what appears to be a throat and polish. I haven't had any problems with my gun. There is no sign of any gouging ??. When I first got the gun, I would have a FTF when I would chamber the first round by inserting the mag and racking the slide. I went back and READ the instructions (when all else fails). The instruction manual says to lock the slide to the rear and use the slide stop to chamber a round- a quirk-never had a FTF during a string of fire. I had the same concerns when disassembling the gun -once again back to the manual. Pulling the trigger releases the striker- the cocking cam hangs up on the striker block . The slide doesn't move that way in the firing cycle. Hope this helps

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris s View Post
    There is no sign of any gouging [barrel] ??.
    None. It looks and feels glass-smooth. Just got another pistol back from the gunsmith and the barrel on that one was smoothed and polished. It looks no better than the ramp and barrel mouth/lips on the PM9.

    [re FTF] The instruction manual says to lock the slide to the rear and use the slide stop to chamber a round- a quirk-never had a FTF during a string of fire.
    FTF's occur during manual racking of the slide, semi-auto strings of fire, first-round of the 7rd or 6rd mag, nth-round of both mags. Seems to be a general problem not related to specific ammo used, which mag used, number of rounds in the mag, how fast it's shot, how well-lubed, whether manually racked or not.

    Pulling the trigger releases the striker- the cocking cam hangs up on the striker block .
    Yeah, I'm aware of the trigger release in order to assemble/disassemble the slide. It's a fairly severe hang-up during a field strip. The slide gets jammed in a position and won't move more than a 1/4" or so.

    Thanks for the suggestions, Chris. I'm all out of ideas. I've re-read the manual, checked the Kahr forums for people's wisdom, spoken with Kahr a couple of times. So far, no quick-fix seems to apply.

    Overall, this PM9 is showing the worst combination of failures I've seen on any gun I've ever owned, bar none. I'm calling Kahr on Monday morning. Hopefully, they will have some suggestions. This can't possibly be how they intend the pistol to run. As it stands, I can't rely upon it, I wouldn't sell it in this condition, and it's going to end up a $600 paper weight in the far recesses of my safe. Too bad, 'cause if it ran 100%, I'd carry it as backup instead of the perfect-running KelTec P3AT, given that it's nearly as small, nearly as concealable, and can run 9mm hot loads. Dang. Nothing like a good mystery ...
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Kahr PM9 9mm sub-compact: Range Report #4

    Gun -- Kahr PM9 9mm sub-compact polymer pistol, with 7rd "extended" magazines.
    Purpose -- Evaluating for possible daily concealed carry.
    Date -- October 14, 2006
    Rounds -- 26 rounds of Remington/UMC FMJ 115gr 9mm standard-power range rounds. 26 + 400 = 426 rounds total, so far.

    • Goal -- Brief session today, to continue focusing on simple feeding and reliability.
    • Field Strip and Cleaning -- Disassembled prior to range session and fully cleaned the gun. Used Militec-1 oil and grease liberally, oiling the small parts and facing metal parts, and greasing the slide rails and the exterior of the barrel/lugs. As gun was already clean, simply ran a bore snake through a couple of times, lightly lubed with Militec oil. Wiped down excess. Wiped down exterior with a dry cloth.
    • Shots -- 26 rounds of Remington/UMC 115gr FMJ standard-pressure range ammo. No tricks; just straight semi-auto shooting full magazines. Manual release of slide; insertion of magazine; manual racking of slide to chamber the first round; semi-auto string of remaining rounds.
    • Aim -- (Lefty shooter.) All shots at 50ft. Accuracy was pretty bad ... about 10-15". But then, I'm not very happy with this gun and am not trying very hard, anymore. So, not really fair.
    • Ejection –- No issues.
    • Slide Action -- Still hangs up with FTF's on many rounds. Otherwise, slide is fairly smooth during operation. During field strip, slide gets hung up on disassembly about 90% of the time; on reassembly, 100% of the time. (Yes, I'm aware of the trigger use during strip.) No apparent hangups with the barrel or recoil spring/rod assembly, though this is likely part of it. Unknown.
    • Jams/failures -- Five FTF, total. Amongst 26 rounds shot. All were the same, with bullets feeding nose-down up the barrel. A couple wouldn't feed at all with manual racking, requiring locking back of the slide, removal of the magazine, reinsertion of the magazine, then flicking the slide release. The other four FTF's eventually cycled via manual racking of the slide, though sometime a couple/three rackings were required. Didn't seem to be a pattern of which magazine, which round. 5 failues out of 26 rounds fired, or a 19% failure rate. Stopped firing and went to the CZ P-01 after that.
    • Cleaning -- Will clean in the morning.


    Time to call Kahr and get them to explain the failures. As it stands, this gun will never see the light of day, for carry use. Can't be asking the BG to wait until I cycle out all of the jams, now, can I? What a pain.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; October 16th, 2006 at 10:32 AM. Reason: grammarians unite!
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #25
    Member Array Doug's Avatar
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    I've said it before, but I can't help but to say it again. It's the numerous threads like this one, that have kept me from purchasing a Kahr pistol. I would love to own a reliable, PM or MK series gun. I just can't see risking $600 to buy one and have a better than average chance that it will be unreliable out of the box. This is why I went with the Glock 26. It is not a "pretty", small, narrow, etc., but it works. It's worked from the second it came out of the box at the firing range, and has never malfunctioned. Becasue of this, I've bought two more, and the reliability has been the same on both of these. No offense to Kahr owners, as I've read that there are some satisfied Kahr owners out there. Unfortunately though, I think they are in a minority, or possibly just people who are willing to work through these kind of issues.
    \"What you\'ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling incoherent response where you even close to expressing anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. May God have mercy on your soul.\" My adoring wife, at least once a day.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Damm it does look like your pm9 needs some work , were it me i belive i would call Dottie at 508-795-3919, Ext.331 ( she is the customer service honcho ) and visit , personaly i recomend shipping back the mags with the gun since i know they changed floorplate design some and that can affect feeding . Good luck with it whateaver you decide to do .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  13. #27
    Member Array Seabee's Avatar
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    I'm about to put another 300 rounds through my MK9 Elite later today. This will put the round count to about 900 with only one FTE on the 8th round. I did a light cleaning this morning, but nothing special. We'll see how it goes.

  14. #28
    Member Array xsquidgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris s View Post
    I have a PM9 that was in the recall range- I sent the barrel back for what appears to be a throat and polish. I haven't had any problems with my gun. There is no sign of any gouging ??. When I first got the gun, I would have a FTF when I would chamber the first round by inserting the mag and racking the slide. I went back and READ the instructions (when all else fails). The instruction manual says to lock the slide to the rear and use the slide stop to chamber a round- a quirk-never had a FTF during a string of fire. I had the same concerns when disassembling the gun -once again back to the manual. Pulling the trigger releases the striker- the cocking cam hangs up on the striker block . The slide doesn't move that way in the firing cycle. Hope this helps


    I shall try this technique with my CW9 - I'll admit I didn't read the directions too closely except for the fieldstripping.

  15. #29
    Member Array xsquidgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsquidgator View Post


    I shall try this technique with my CW9 - I'll admit I didn't read the directions too closely except for the fieldstripping.
    I went and put about 150 or so rounds through my CW9 yesterday, following the directions for loading this time (ie use slide release lever to load 1st round), and not one single FTF at all, flawless for all rounds. Mostly Winchester FMJs from walmart (white box) but also a few Winchester JHPs and Speer GoldDot HPs to see if they'd feed. Flawless. I also disassembled the CW9 several times and then put it back together a few times during the afternoon to make sure it worked and fed properly each time - it did. I'm quite at ease now relying on the CW9, it works every bit as well as my SW3906 and Ruger P85.

  16. #30
    Member Array dbracin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Kahr PM9 9mm sub-compact: Range Report #4

    Gun -- Kahr PM9 9mm sub-compact polymer pistol, with 7rd "extended" magazines.
    Purpose -- Evaluating for possible daily concealed carry.
    Date -- October 14, 2006
    Rounds -- 26 rounds of Remington/UMC FMJ 115gr 9mm standard-power range rounds. 26 + 400 = 426 rounds total, so far.

    • Goal -- Brief session today, to continue focusing on simple feeding and reliability.
    • Field Strip and Cleaning -- Disassembled prior to range session and fully cleaned the gun. Used Militec-1 oil and grease liberally, oiling the small parts and facing metal parts, and greasing the slide rails and the exterior of the barrel/lugs. As gun was already clean, simply ran a bore snake through a couple of times, lightly lubed with Militec oil. Wiped down excess. Wiped down exterior with a dry cloth.
    • Shots -- 26 rounds of Remington/UMC 115gr FMJ standard-pressure range ammo. No tricks; just straight semi-auto shooting full magazines. Manual release of slide; insertion of magazine; manual racking of slide to chamber the first round; semi-auto string of remaining rounds.
    • Aim -- (Lefty shooter.) All shots at 50ft. Accuracy was pretty bad ... about 10-15". But then, I'm not very happy with this gun and am not trying very hard, anymore. So, not really fair.
    • Ejection - No issues.
    • Slide Action -- Still hangs up with FTF's on many rounds. Otherwise, slide is fairly smooth during operation. During field strip, slide gets hung up on disassembly about 90% of the time; on reassembly, 100% of the time. (Yes, I'm aware of the trigger use during strip.) No apparent hangups with the barrel or recoil spring/rod assembly, though this is likely part of it. Unknown.
    • Jams/failures -- Five FTF, total. Amongst 26 rounds shot. All were the same, with bullets feeding nose-down up the barrel. A couple wouldn't feed at all with manual racking, requiring locking back of the slide, removal of the magazine, reinsertion of the magazine, then flicking the slide release. The other four FTF's eventually cycled via manual racking of the slide, though sometime a couple/three rackings were required. Didn't seem to be a pattern of which magazine, which round. 5 failues out of 26 rounds fired, or a 19% failure rate. Stopped firing and went to the CZ P-01 after that.
    • Cleaning -- Will clean in the morning.


    Time to call Kahr and get them to explain the failures. As it stands, this gun will never see the light of day, for carry use. Can't be asking the BG to wait until I cycle out all of the jams, now, can I? What a pain.

    Did you get your PM9 issue resolved?

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