Limp Wristing Is Not A Good Excuse

This is a discussion on Limp Wristing Is Not A Good Excuse within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; When I got my Glock 19 I was thrilled. I had fired many Glocks of many different calibers, had handled the Generation 4 Glock 17 ...

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Thread: Limp Wristing Is Not A Good Excuse

  1. #1
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    Limp Wristing Is Not A Good Excuse

    When I got my Glock 19 I was thrilled. I had fired many Glocks of many different calibers, had handled the Generation 4 Glock 17 and was very eager to get its little brother in my hands. My Gen 4 G19 was one of the first off the presses and I couldn't wait to get it to the range. When I did, however, I was disappointed to find that my Glock--a name promoted to be almost synonymous with reliability--was anything but.

    Failure to feed, failure to eject, no slide lock on the last round.. to say I was frustrated by my new pistol would be an understatement.

    Being as involved with the internet gun community as I am I allowed those who were interested to see both video of me shooting and I wrote about my issues on a few gun forums.

    I was not surprised to find those who found it hard to blame the Glock. I was surprised by their enormous number. People who were loyal to the Glock and the firm belief that it is error proof started to get out their hammers and sharpen their spikes to nail me to the wall of inexperience.

    The comments poured in on how I was limp wristing and needed to adjust my grip. I then had someone tell me I needed to loosen my grip. One person even said I needed to change my stance.

    Stance? Really? Changing my stance will affect the cycling of my firearm? Too loose? Too tight? Too high? Too low? And people say 1911s are picky!

    I am not a bulls-eye shooter. I don't train and practice to put five shots in a dime-sized hole. I do not buy bulls-eye guns that are milled to perfection and handled with glass-balancing care. I buy combat guns to use for self defense in combative environments. I shoot for speed and combat accuracy. I expect my gun to work if I'm standing on my head with one hand behind my back, in the rain, with jelly on my fingers after the gun happened to fall into a mud puddle. I don't have the time or inclination to baby a gun that may or may not work because I happened to have a slightly weakened grip at one moment or too tight of a grip the next.

    I've never had to fire a gun in self defense, but I have had to fire guns in simulated scenarios. I've fired one-handed around obstacles, while running. I've fired guns over my shoulder while trying to move in the opposite direction. I've fired guns lying on the ground with both my strong hand and my off hand all in attempts to simulate the kind of conditions that one may be required to fire from if fighting for his or her life.

    One thing was universally true: perfect grips and stances are hard to come by when you move off the static firing range. And if a perfect grip or stance is required for your gun to work reliably than it is not a combat gun and should not be relied on as such.

    I've read stories of officers and civilians who continued to fire guns despite massive injuries to arms and hands that severely weakened grips.

    I also watched a clip of a well-known and highly-respected firearms instructor shooting his XD upside down in his hands with his pinky on the trigger and naught but his thumb on the backstrap. If anyone was looking for the definition of a compromised grip, there you have it.

    He fired through an entire magazine without a single malfunction.

    I'm tired of people making "limp wristing" an excuse for a gun that cannot preform reliably. With modern technology and machining there's no reason why a firearm should have trouble with a compromised grip.

    Yes, individuals should be griping their firearms as securely as possible and, yes, recoil-operated firearms do need a base to provide resistance for that cycling slide but asking for that base to be perfectly stable under all circumstances is an unreasonable requirement for a combat pistol (in my humble opinion).

    After I was done beating myself up about my Glock and done listening to the internet commandos I went out and bought myself a new recoil spring. I switched out parts and was rewarded with a perfectly functioning firearm. I have yet to have a malfunction with the new spring (now made old with time) but I still get people trying to tell me the malfunctions were somehow related to me and my handling of the Glock (despite the fact that they magically went away when I switched recoil springs). If that were true then I wouldn't be a Glock owner today as I would not trust the Glock to be reliable under combative conditions.

    If you are going to call a firearm a combat gun, hold it to a combat standard.. one in which a compromised grip would not cause regular malfunctions. "Limp Wristing" is not a good excuse for a firearm to be unreliable.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    You're up late.

    I guess I have never actually seen "limp wristing" first hand. Sounds like it would be painful. Got to hang on like you mean it.

    Funny how folks are quick to blame the operator.

  4. #3
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    I agree I don't think how you grip the weapon has any effect on the cycling of it... I have heard that as an excuse before. Nice job on fixing the issue
    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

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  5. #4
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    In order for a glock to malfunction due to limp wristing you have to barely hold the pistol.

    Limp wristing is the absolute worst excuse out there when you have an ammo or pistol problem.

    I agree with you Lima 100%.


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    Senior Member Array GreyGhost's Avatar
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    This has been a bug in your bonnet for quite a while hasn't it? I can fully understand! Most people assume it's the operators fault when the gun doesn't run. I still can't figure out if it's because they had the same problem and it was their fault or if they are simply repeating crap they read on the internet. I'm leaning towards the repeating thing.

    I remember when the Gen4s came out everybody was limp wristing! Or it was the ammo. Or it was too wet. Or too dry. Cause Lord knows a Glock can't have a problem! Just saying it is sacrilegious!

    It didn't take long before the problems were known to be an issue with the gun. And I'm glad it looks like the issues have been resolved.

    I agree with your assessment that your gun should run under adverse conditions. Life is not like the range. My gun is a tool that needs to work whenever I need it. If the one I have won't work when I'm shooting with a loose grip or with my weak hand, I will find one that will.

    I just want to add that I enjoy reading your posts and always seem to learn a little bit from you. Your writing is much more eloquent and concise than my chopped up thoughts! Great post!
    Question Everything!

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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Well done Limatunes.........I had the same experience with a string of 1911s manufactured by a company that has some of the slickest ads in all the guns magazines and was told repeatedly by other owners of the same brand that it was all me.
    Funny that at the time, my H&K and Glock worked flawlessly.
    Great Post!
    Last edited by Rotorblade; February 26th, 2012 at 06:32 AM. Reason: typo
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    But Lima, it's a Glock, we all know Glocks can't malfunction, so it has to be the shooter. Even us non-Glockaholic's know that!
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    Question

    I don't doubt that your experience was a bad one and I would be upset myself if it happened to me. Heck, I was upset when my students Gen 4's guns puked right out of the box.

    For research and data comparison, please tell us:

    Did you ever find the problem?

    What generation Glock it was?

    Was it new or used?

    What kind of ammo was used?

    Did you notice and burrs on the trigger bar where it pushes up on the safety plunger?

    Were the mags new?

    Any aftermarket parts on the gun?

    Thanks in advance for the info.
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  10. #9
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    I was not surprised to find those who found it hard to blame the Glock. I was surprised by their enormous number. People who were loyal to the Glock and the firm belief that it is error proof started to get out their hammers and sharpen their spikes to nail me to the wall of inexperience.
    Same holds true for the 1911 guys (as we saw by the two threads that got closed yesterday)...
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    That sounds like my experience with the 3 Glocks I owned. One was a G22C and the other 2 were G22. I've since been told that those weren't the best choice and that those were in fact the models that would KABOOM on the operator.

    Maybe one of these days I'll pick up another Glock

  12. #11
    Member Array genauwiedu's Avatar
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    *sigh* more gen4 whining. Its pretty well known by now the .40 cal recoil spring they put in the 9's was too stiff for shooting discount walmart ammo. They made a weaker one, problem solved. Then it was the extractor and ejector that caused gen4 to suck (even though they are the same parts that the gen 3's have....) My early gen 4 19 has worked fine since day one and so has 99% of everyone elses. The only people complaining are the self proclaimed internet engineers whining that it doesn't toss brass consistently into a dixie cup. Its hilarious that these people are convinced they know more about engineering a firearm than glock.


    Just in case someone wants to start with "M&P has never had a problem" I'm glad yours works fine, but go read the laundry list of problems others have had.

    brass to the face, cracked slides, rusting slides, accuracy issues, barrel/slide lockup issues, not to mention the entire gun fits loose and rattles. The mag can actually be twisted back and forth in the mag well. It doesn't mean that every M&P is bad, it just means you only hear from the ones who have an issue.

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    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    I think the underlying problem here is when someone reads a thread that involves a handgun they own not performing up to snuff they take it as a personal offense. People love their firearms and anyone that would introduce and ounce of doubt in the functionality of thier firearm must be not operating thier firearm correctly. In reality the function of your firearms and someone else's is pretty independent of one another but people are products of thier psyche.
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  14. #13
    Member Array genauwiedu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodle View Post
    I think the underlying problem here is when someone reads a thread that involves a handgun they own not performing up to snuff they take it as a personal offense. People love their firearms and anyone that would introduce and ounce of doubt in the functionality of thier firearm must be not operating thier firearm correctly. In reality the function of your firearms and someone else's is pretty independent of one another but people are products of thier psyche.
    If that was for me I don't take it personal at all. I was trying to point out the people with issues are miniscule in scale compared to happy owners. No gun is perfect, especially when its mass produced.

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    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genauwiedu View Post
    If that was for me I don't take it personal at all. I was trying to point out the people with issues are miniscule in scale compared to happy owners. No gun is perfect, especially when its mass produced.
    nope it was purely a general reply to op having her abilities questioned when her pistol obviously had a problem. Although I would caution one from insulting a well liked and knowledgable moderator by calling her a whiny internet engineer. I'm not a glock guy but there have been too many posts with issues on the gen 4 G19's here for me to possibly believe that the issue is imaginary.

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    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post

    If you are going to call a firearm a combat gun, hold it to a combat standard.. one in which a compromised grip would not cause regular malfunctions. "Limp Wristing" is not a good excuse for a firearm to be unreliable.
    Great post. The last statement sums it up very well.

    bosco

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