Retired my G19 Today.

This is a discussion on Retired my G19 Today. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by barstoolguru because the 40 s&w is a better round and for pennys you get more stopping power Define "stopping power." (Hint....there ain't ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    because the 40 s&w is a better round and for pennys you get more stopping power
    Define "stopping power."

    (Hint....there ain't no such thing.)
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array 45ACP4ever's Avatar
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    Oh no, not stopping power again. I saw pictures of a 9mm JHP that expanded to .62" and the .40S&W of the same brand expanded to .64".

    Anyway, I'm glad to see you got such great service out of your lovely gift and giving it a fine retirement. Pics would be nice.
    "It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath we will hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood, until it rains down from the skies. Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles that every man from every faith can embrace." -McManus twins Boondock Saints

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45ACP4ever View Post
    Oh no, not stopping power again. I saw pictures of a 9mm JHP that expanded to .62" and the .40S&W of the same brand expanded to .64".
    I agree. they're functionally the same. (even the precious 45acp). carry/shoot whatever you're most accurate and quick with.

    however, final bullet diameter is useless data that seldom represents the full expansion of a hollowpoint.

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    Define "stopping power."

    (Hint....there ain't no such thing.)
    Stopping power is the ability to cause trauma and trauma causes death. It is proven that certain bullet shapes and weights will cause more trauma over others. The FBI didn't ask S&W to develop a better round then the 9mm bullet for no reason! The bottom line is a bigger bullet makes a bigger wound channel and speeds up the bleeding process with less chance to close up.



    For those of you that don’t know or never seen the shoot out that pushed the FBI to move to a BIGGER bullet here is a you-tube video of the shoot out. From what I understand this is a made for TV clip but it is as true as they can get to the real shootout.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Cool. Do you find the gen 4 to be a better carrying gun?

  7. #21
    Member Array All_Business's Avatar
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    Stopping power: A perk you can choose that increases bullet damage; from the best selling video game series of the millenium, Call of Duty. In stores now.
    Vaquero 45 likes this.
    "When that gun comes out of that holster; it's business time." -Chris Costa

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    For those of you that don’t know or never seen the shoot out that pushed the FBI to move to a BIGGER bullet here is a you-tube video of the shoot out. From what I understand this is a made for TV clip but it is as true as they can get to the real shootout.
    Barstoolguru,

    I think the fundamental lesson there is engaging determined BG's armed with automatic weapons is not a great idea when you are armed with handguns, regardless the caliber. The failure wasn't the 9mm round of the time it was poor tactics on the part of the FBI.
    Old School and 40Bob like this.

  9. #23
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    A respectful retirement, for sure!.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FPW823 View Post
    Awesome. I look forward to the day i can say i have 20 yrs with my glock.
    My Son has my first Glock a G17 that I purchased in 1987. It is semi retired also as he takes it out once in while to shoot it. It was also the first handgun he learned to shoot. in 1988.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Stopping power is the ability to cause trauma and trauma causes death. It is proven that certain bullet shapes and weights will cause more trauma over others. The FBI didn't ask S&W to develop a better round then the 9mm bullet for no reason! The bottom line is a bigger bullet makes a bigger wound channel and speeds up the bleeding process with less chance to close up.

    For those of you that donít know or never seen the shoot out that pushed the FBI to move to a BIGGER bullet here is a you-tube video of the shoot out. From what I understand this is a made for TV clip but it is as true as they can get to the real shootout.
    Pure, unadulterated BS.

    As long as the bullet penetrates to the vitals, bullet diameter has little to do with incapacitating injuries. A determined attacker that has his heart completely destroyed still has 10-15 seconds of oxygen left to press his attack until forced to stop due to unconsciousness. An attacker can easily kill you in those 10 or 15 seconds that he has left. Only rounds that interrupt the central nervous system (brain, spinal cord) will produce an instant stop, and the brain or spinal cord can't tell the difference between a 9mm and a 45.

    A .30-06 has about 5 times the energy of the hottest common pistol rounds, and is immensely more effective in destroying tissue. Yet ask any hunter.....a 150 pound deer can take a hit that completely destroys the heart and both lungs, and still run 50-100 yards before dropping. Tell me again about pistol "stopping power."

    As far as the rehashed Miami firefight, one agent fired 20 shots and attained three hits on a bad guy (right upper arm/chest, right rear thigh, and left foot.) You can't stop a determined attacker with a Mini-14 if you can't hit him where it counts. The only thing that bigger bullets would have done for those agents is make them run out of ammo more quickly and get themselves killed that much quicker. Interestingly enough, the fight was ended with .38 Special +P rounds. So much for any "bigger bullet" theory. Shot placement. Shot placement. Shot placement.

    Here ya go.....this bad guy was hit 22 times with premium .40 S&W ammo, 17 were center mass. He lived for 4 minutes after the medics arrived: Officer Down: The Peter Soulis Incident - Below 100 - LawOfficer.com

    How about a meth head who was shot 20 times in 2009 by the Boise, Idaho police, who is still whining about it? Man shot 20 times by Boise Police says officers are lying | KTVB.COM Boise
    By the way, the Boise Police Department uses Glock 21 .45 ACP pistols, in case you were wondering.

    And for those who pick their defensive pistol caliber by watching questionable YouTube videos, I hear there is a neat video of Tom Hanks blowing up a tank with a 1911.
    NY27 likes this.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    because the 40 s&w is a better round and for pennys you get more stopping power
    Here we go again...

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Wow, 20 yr. of service. That's a gift that did a lot of giving.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  14. #28
    Member Array Nilloc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailWolf View Post
    I'd like to know where you shop for your .40?

    Even the cheapo Walmart or Russian stuff is still 40-50% more a box...
    .
    I'dlike to know where you shop that charges 40 to 50% more for .40, because either you live in Beverly Hills or you can't do math.

  15. #29
    Member Array Nilloc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    Pure, unadulterated BS.

    As long as the bullet penetrates to the vitals, bullet diameter has little to do with incapacitating injuries. A determined attacker that has his heart completely destroyed still has 10-15 seconds of oxygen left to press his attack until forced to stop due to unconsciousness. An attacker can easily kill you in those 10 or 15 seconds that he has left. Only rounds that interrupt the central nervous system (brain, spinal cord) will produce an instant stop, and the brain or spinal cord can't tell the difference between a 9mm and a 45.

    A .30-06 has about 5 times the energy of the hottest common pistol rounds, and is immensely more effective in destroying tissue. Yet ask any hunter.....a 150 pound deer can take a hit that completely destroys the heart and both lungs, and still run 50-100 yards before dropping. Tell me again about pistol "stopping power."

    As far as the rehashed Miami firefight, one agent fired 20 shots and attained three hits on a bad guy (right upper arm/chest, right rear thigh, and left foot.) You can't stop a determined attacker with a Mini-14 if you can't hit him where it counts. The only thing that bigger bullets would have done for those agents is make them run out of ammo more quickly and get themselves killed that much quicker. Interestingly enough, the fight was ended with .38 Special +P rounds. So much for any "bigger bullet" theory. Shot placement. Shot placement. Shot placement.

    Here ya go.....this bad guy was hit 22 times with premium .40 S&W ammo, 17 were center mass. He lived for 4 minutes after the medics arrived: Officer Down: The Peter Soulis Incident - Below 100 - LawOfficer.com

    How about a meth head who was shot 20 times in 2009 by the Boise, Idaho police, who is still whining about it? Man shot 20 times by Boise Police says officers are lying | KTVB.COM Boise
    By the way, the Boise Police Department uses Glock 21 .45 ACP pistols, in case you were wondering.

    And for those who pick their defensive pistol caliber by watching questionable YouTube videos, I hear there is a neat video of Tom Hanks blowing up a tank with a 1911.
    Sounds like an upset 9mm fanboy.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nilloc View Post
    Sounds like an upset 9mm fanboy.
    No, just someone with real life experience who has been to numerous shootings in an investigatory capacity and makes observations, along with researching actual shootings rather than asking YouTube what works.

    Care to refute what I posted, or is "fanboy" the best that your intellectual capacity can muster?
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

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