Summer pistol

Summer pistol

This is a discussion on Summer pistol within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I see a possible opening with the Finance Committee here at home so I am considering the purchase of a Sig P239 in a yet-to-be-decided ...

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Thread: Summer pistol

  1. #1
    Member Array LTPhoon's Avatar
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    Summer pistol

    I see a possible opening with the Finance Committee here at home so I am considering the purchase of a Sig P239 in a yet-to-be-decided caliber to be my summer carry pistol to complement my SA/DA 229 in .40. I handled a 239 DAK recently and really liked it. My questions are: Will the functional difference between SA/DA and DAK be a problem, as I change between one and the other, in terms of making the weapon safe after, God forbid, a gunfight? Would I (and others around me) be best served by sticking to one or the other? Will lawyers be licking their chops (He didn't know which dangerous instrument he was carrying that day, Your Honor!)? Or can that be overcome by shooting the bejeebers out of both of them at the range? Any help on the caliber would be appreciated, too.


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    Member Array estimber's Avatar
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    The only problem in a shootout is that you may be looking for a decocker that is not there. It may cost you precious time if you are looking for something that is not there instead of paying attention to your surroundings. This is just the extreme though. As far as caliber, I would stick to whatever caliber you P229 is, why purchase additional ammo if it is not necessary.

    I would not worry about the lawyers; A good shoot is a good shoot no matter what caliber or pistol you were using. If it is a bad shoot it does not matter what you had.
    If we treat every gun as if it was loaded, then why not treat every individual as if they are armed.

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    I think only you will be able to answer the trigger question. Some are more trigger/action sensitive and you'll have to see for yourself.

    I really like the DAO concept, in the case of Sigarms, specifically the DAK. Trigger actions are about as hotly discussed as the 9mm vs .45 ACP debates.

    The only issue I see with the decocker per se, is remembering to decock. Since the DAK doesn't have to be decocked, you can't holster or walk around with a cocked gun.

    I tend to notice comments about 'summer pistols'. It seems that often 'we' are willing to sacrifice something in the summer so our gun is more convenient/comfortable to carry. Seems to me that our gun selection should be based on what we would want to have if we were in a gunfight.

    The Sig 239 is certainly a good choice. But if you already have a 229, why not carry it?

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    Member Array estimber's Avatar
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    My summer carry is a Kel-Tec 2G P3AT. While it is only a .380 it is a gun that can ALWAYS be carried no matter the weather or clothing. Here lately it has been well over 100 with the heat index so it is comforting to know that the AT is there. I also carry it in the winter months but usually as a BUG to something larger. It has been flawless for almost 1,000 rounds so far.
    If we treat every gun as if it was loaded, then why not treat every individual as if they are armed.

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    Member Array LTPhoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I think only you will be able to answer the trigger question. Some are more trigger/action sensitive and you'll have to see for yourself.

    I really like the DAO concept, in the case of Sigarms, specifically the DAK. Trigger actions are about as hotly discussed as the 9mm vs .45 ACP debates.

    The only issue I see with the decocker per se, is remembering to decock. Since the DAK doesn't have to be decocked, you can't holster or walk around with a cocked gun.

    I tend to notice comments about 'summer pistols'. It seems that often 'we' are willing to sacrifice something in the summer so our gun is more convenient/comfortable to carry. Seems to me that our gun selection should be based on what we would want to have if we were in a gunfight.

    The Sig 239 is certainly a good choice. But if you already have a 229, why not carry it?

    Well, I have a post on Holsters & Carry Options regarding an overdue holster delivery for the 229. That and I don't want the Finance Committee window to slam shut on my fingers. As to the decocker, estimber's post mentioned a concern about looking for a decocker that wasn't there where your post is more in line with my concern about not looking for a decocker which is there. And regarding caliber, 9mm is cheaper, but the Finance Committee will have to be convinced to spring for a Barsto barrel (or two) if I go for the 239 in .40...

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    The Finance Committee - duh, I get it now! LOL! We do need to take advantage of financial opportunities!

    Since you are giving this careful consideration, I'll add this, and probably start a war doing so. I have or have had 9mms, .357 sig, .S&W .40, and .45 ACP in Sigs, Glocks, H&Ks, Berettas, and 1911s. I like and trust them all. But, I carry 9mm. I trust it, I easily average shooting about 200 rounds a week and that's not counting 2500 rounds in one week at Blackwater. 9mm is much more affordable than any other caliber.

    I'm not quite sure what estimber's point is about, "...looking for a decocker that isn't there...". The decocker will only be needed after shooting; it's not like a safety that has to be "offed" before.

    But I have seen, experienced guys holster their guns cocked because they were distracted and forgot to decock. I even did it once at Blackwater with my Beretta. Fortunately an instructor caught it immediately.

    I prefer the traditional DA/SA over the DAO, and that includes the DAK, but under stress the mind gets distracted. I've experienced just the tip of the stress iceberg in training, and can only imagine the stress and distraction of shooting or even shooting at someone. I can see how it could be really easy to forget to decock. Here we would be in an adreneline pumped, high stress condition with our gun cocked and likely our finger still on the trigger. Not good. I think that's the beauty of DAOs like the DAK. It doesn't ever go into that sensitive, short trigger stroke SA mode. Studies have indicated that trigger pull length is more important that trigger weight in reducing the risk of an unintentional discharge.

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    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    once you have thoroughly familiarized yourself with the hg, you shoud not experience any problems concerining trigger.....
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

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    What if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I'm not quite sure what estimber's point is about, "...looking for a decocker that isn't there...". The decocker will only be needed after shooting; it's not like a safety that has to be "offed" before.
    I'm not experienced with a wide variety of handguns, but in the case of the Bersa Thunder 380 the decocker can be viewed as a safety IF the user carries the gun with the decocker on the safe position. I don't carry mine that way, but can imagine that some do.

    I can picture two different situations where switching between the two guns may cause a problem.

    If the decocker is normally carried in the safe position and you're used to that, then you may lose time searching for it when carrying the gun without it.

    The second, and IMO more dangerous, thing is if you're less familiar with the gun with the decocker and you forget that it's "safe" while carrying that gun, you may lose more than time when you try to fire and have to remember to move the decocker.

    Like I said, I'm not as experienced as many, or most, on the forum, but those two situations occurred to me. Please tell me (gently) if I'm wrong.

    Rick
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    My thinking with the Bersa .380 (and now a 9mm also) is that I will use the decocker after charging the gun - just as I do with my EDC 226 - and so either gun would be still in effect a straightforward DA/SA. Thus if I carried a bersa, I am using the same platform principle.

    My wife keeps the .380 these days but I try and impress on her not to leave it on safe - not only is the lever rather tight and stiff but - the gun is perfectly and safely carriable once decocked. This is not a safety that will ''sweep'' off like a 1911.
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    Senior Member Array gregarat's Avatar
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    My questions are: Will the functional difference between SA/DA and DAK be a problem, as I change between one and the other, in terms of making the weapon safe after, God forbid, a gunfight?
    Training, familiarisation, "the gray matter between your ears".

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    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I tend to notice comments about 'summer pistols'. It seems that often 'we' are willing to sacrifice something in the summer so our gun is more convenient/comfortable to carry. Seems to me that our gun selection should be based on what we would want to have if we were in a gunfight.
    Great point, Tangle. You nailed it!

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    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    Got to agree with Tangle as my Summer carry is the same as my Winter carry - .45acp Mil-Spec.

    Then again, you can never have too many guns so, given the financial go-ahead, sure go ahead and pick up the 239. Caliberwise, I'd go with the .40 as your ammo capacity will be more limited than in the 229 (plus, it allows for the .357Sig barrel swap). As far as the SA/DA vs. DAK, only you can answer that one. I prefer all my shots to have the same trigger pull so I carry either a SA 1911s or DAO J-frame.
    Jack

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    While it may be true that some gun combos could be more troubling than others, the original question, was whether switching between a Sig DA/SA or a Sig DAK would/could cause problems.

    In this specific gun combo, neither have safeties so they would both operate the very same way out of the holster for the first shot. Subsequent shots would be different, SA on one and DAO on the other. And yes it makes a difference - one is a shorter, lighter, crisper trigger and the other is a longer, heavier, but very clean breaking trigger.

    For example, I shot my DAK for about 100 rounds and naturally acclimated to the trigger pull stroke and weight. I switched to my Sig DA/SA and fired the second shot prematurely because I was used to the heavier, longer DA pull of the DAK. But if I shot five rounds in one and five in the other, I don't have any problems.

    But perhaps the most serious issue is if you get used to the DAK, and switch to the DA/SA will you remember to use the decocker. For my personal experience and watching others, it is probable that you will forget to decock until you quickly re-acclimate yourself to decocking when you're through shooting.

    As for the effect on accuracy and shooting proficiency, that's something one has to determine for himself. I've been trying to find a measureable difference in proficiency among different trigger actions for years and the only thing I can say for sure is that it takes a very brief time to adjust from one action to another and then I can see no difference.

    I have shot five round strings in Glocks, 1911s, Sig DA/SA, Sig DAK, H&K LEM, and H&K DA/SA and I see little, if any, measurable difference. But that's me, others may fidn something very different.

    So, LTPhoon, I think you'll have to find the answer for yourself. The only issue I see that you can be certain of, is remembering to decock a DA/SA after you have gotten used to the DAK.

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