The Handguns the PROS use - Page 2

The Handguns the PROS use

This is a discussion on The Handguns the PROS use within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It seem s like people get defensive when they are left out of the circle of "PRO" in regards to firearms usage. Im not sure ...

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Thread: The Handguns the PROS use

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    It seem s like people get defensive when they are left out of the circle of "PRO" in regards to firearms usage. Im not sure why this is, but maybe its psychological. Having a gun to carry with the perceived need to protect yourself and family or going to civilian training courses does not make the IT man, or Doctor a pro anymore than me banging on this computer makes me a Tech or taking my own pulse makes me a Doctor. Sorry, but thats life in the big city.

    Sure, there are some people with a great deal of interest in firearms that may be a better gamer or,impromptu range shooter than a few armed professionals, but that still does not make one a "professional at arms".

    Now, as far as the weapon being "chosen" for the pro, there is some truth to that. However, there is also a certain amount of latitude given by many agencies accordingly. And, just because one may "think" they are better than a traine professional at arms based on observation from an informal round of plinking or paper punching, in no way reflects the level of skill that may come to the top during a real life or death encounter.
    Of course there are boobs in every discipline.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    There are very valid reasons that Police and Military don't carry the LCP or Snubnose .38...but they still have a very valid place in average joe concealed carry. Very different criteria for choosing. Choose wisely depending on your needs, purpose, situation.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paullie View Post
    at the prison i worked at all of our guns were Rugers, guess we wasn't pros
    ************************************************** ************************************************** **
    NO knock on anybody or their job(hell, I carried a Model 10 and 64 for years at work)...just I've noticed a trend and these platforms always seem to show up.
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Leave it to an "old grunt" to open a can of worms!! LOL
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    they used to call that stirring-the-pot, back in the day!(LOL)
    Last edited by Bark'n; March 27th, 2012 at 02:36 AM. Reason: Language Edit
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
    82d Abn(1983-86)OIF 2007-08
    Glock 19&26/ Colt Gov't & OM/Ruger SP101
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    Still Love Ya Sarah !
    "no kidding,gun slinging,spurs hitting the floor"

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I think in part these 3 are very popular because they are proven designs. Noone could do better than any of these three for professional applications where concealment is not an issue, but reliability and ease of shooting are top considerations. Of course there are others that meet the same criteria, and will serve just as well, but these are 3 of the most recognizable and popular platforms. Others that come to my mind are the CZ 75, BHP, or even the servive size revolvers, read as K frame S&W models.
    old grunt likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    Boy..the bees are flying out of the hive and they're pissed!(LOL) My thread was just a comment on an observation I've made from both reading and personal experience. As we know the firearm is the tool and the operator is the weapon,so any well-made reliable platform will get the job done. But be honest, those 3 autos(and their variations)fill up A alot of holsters out there. "Now can we all just get along.....!"(LOL)
    Last edited by Bark'n; March 27th, 2012 at 02:37 AM. Reason: language edit
    glockman10mm likes this.
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
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    "no kidding,gun slinging,spurs hitting the floor"

  7. #22
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    I am "PRO" 2nd Ammendment.... and I carry a Glock 17.
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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
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    Before I retired from law enforcement work we qualified every year with the weapons we were issued. A lot f the officers and higher ups had to shoot over three times to get qualified which I'm thinking the only time they fired any weapon was that once a year at the range. Me and most of the others on my squad always requalified expert since we shot a lot with personal time and with our own weapons. Guess that's why I'm here on this forum, I like my guns and they liked painting their nails.
    Bad Bob likes this.
    The police are not there to protect you from crime, they are there to arrest the guy after the crime has been committed, assuming they find him. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and your family.

  9. #24
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    definitely need to add the CZ75 and the BHP to the list. Agree with Gman that a Pro is someone that carries a firearm as a requirement of their chosen career and is paid to do so. No one is paying us to carry every day, so by defintion, no matter how good you are, you just ain't no Pro. Get over it.
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  10. #25
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  11. #26
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    Glockman, if the above included my response I'll clarify. Your definition would include the mall security guard (who I don't consider a firearms professional strictly by job description) and my sentiment is identical to local and federal LEO firearms trainers I've talked with. I agree being a professional is more than punching small holes in paper, but by the same token, a professional knows how to manage risks, behave responsibly, knows his/her limitations and capabilities and that of their equipment, and maintains a level of proficiency with their equipment and strives to improve their level of proficiency. BTW, I don't consider myself a professional gun handler, but I also don't think it should include a blanket statement of carrying a gun b/c of a job description either.

    As a concrete example a local LEO firearms instructor had someone on his department state that he didn't think a .380 would "go that far" with respect to a steel popper sitting out at 100 yds. The instructor proceeded to ding the popper at that distance b/c he knew the capabilities of himself and his equipment. Same instructor was harping on others in his charge about their proficiency with their firearms. Their attitude was "why do we need to shoot that well when you'll be backing us up?" He then had to explain to them that he wanted his backup to be as proficient as he was. We had a local officer shot b/c after training with simunitions he decided he wanted to be shot w/o proper protection to see what it felt like. His buddy, forgetting that he had transitioned to live ammo proceeded to shoot him with his duty ammo. I wouldn't consider any of those officers, except the instructor, as professionals when it comes to firearms. You can point out these are isolated cases, but as I said, the instructors from various agencies, all with many years of experience, share the same attitude. Run of the mill officers consistently demonstrate poor muzzle control and gun handling skills, mediocre qual scores, and a lack of interest in a tool that they may rarely need, but when they need it, they really need it in the worst way.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
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    When our department made the transition from the 357 magnum model 65 smith to the smith MP 40. One of our dept instructor was shot by a Greensboro NC city officer at The firing line during qualification. She turned towards him stating her weapon had a malfunction. Had been told prior too the incident to keep the weapon pointed down range and instructor would come assist. About the time he got to her she turned to look in his direction and weapon followed her body around. BOOM he was shot in the elbow with a 40 caliber bullet causing a very bad bleeding wound. He survived and recovered to return to work after being out over a year. but she didn't survive her job. Dismissed due to neglect and not following orders. One mistake with a bullet can not be taken back. It could have very much worse for him or others on the firing line that day....
    The police are not there to protect you from crime, they are there to arrest the guy after the crime has been committed, assuming they find him. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and your family.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Glockman, if the above included my response I'll clarify. Your definition would include the mall security guard (who I don't consider a firearms professional strictly by job description) and my sentiment is identical to local and federal LEO firearms trainers I've talked with. I agree being a professional is more than punching small holes in paper, but by the same token, a professional knows how to manage risks, behave responsibly, knows his/her limitations and capabilities and that of their equipment, and maintains a level of proficiency with their equipment and strives to improve their level of proficiency. BTW, I don't consider myself a professional gun handler, but I also don't think it should include a blanket statement of carrying a gun b/c of a job description either.

    As a concrete example a local LEO firearms instructor had someone on his department state that he didn't think a .380 would "go that far" with respect to a steel popper sitting out at 100 yds. The instructor proceeded to ding the popper at that distance b/c he knew the capabilities of himself and his equipment. Same instructor was harping on others in his charge about their proficiency with their firearms. Their attitude was "why do we need to shoot that well when you'll be backing us up?" He then had to explain to them that he wanted his backup to be as proficient as he was. We had a local officer shot b/c after training with simunitions he decided he wanted to be shot w/o proper protection to see what it felt like. His buddy, forgetting that he had transitioned to live ammo proceeded to shoot him with his duty ammo. I wouldn't consider any of those officers, except the instructor, as professionals when it comes to firearms. You can point out these are isolated cases, but as I said, the instructors from various agencies, all with many years of experience, share the same attitude. Run of the mill officers consistently demonstrate poor muzzle control and gun handling skills, mediocre qual scores, and a lack of interest in a tool that they may rarely need, but when they need it, they really need it in the worst way.
    As I originally stated, there are boobs on both sides. But Professional still means its what your paid to do.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  14. #29
    cj
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    Most 'pros' I know of shoot what their sponsor wants them to shoot, or what the lowest bidder of acceptable quality provides their organization. Some exceptions exist, but that accounts for the majority.

  15. #30
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    WaHOO !

    I've got some Colts,
    some Glocks,
    and some Sigs...

    does that make a professional pro or a triple pro?
    1hogfan83 likes this.
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