The perfect pocket carry pistol - Page 4

The perfect pocket carry pistol

This is a discussion on The perfect pocket carry pistol within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MichSteve I do not see how a 38sp +P is more effective than a 380, they are the same size in diameter, ...

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Thread: The perfect pocket carry pistol

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichSteve View Post
    I do not see how a 38sp +P is more effective than a 380, they are the same size in diameter, there velocity is the same 20-30 FPS difference, the 380 has 7 rounds on board compared to 5. The 380 is the diameter as the 9mm, for sure the 9mm is moving 200-300FPS faster than the 380 so it is going to do more damage. I believe in bullet placement over bullet performance, I know you need the most you can get, however, all pistol caliber suck at Self-Defense.
    I will take 38+P any day of the week, thank you very much

    BUG's: .380 ACP vs. .38 Sp - M4Carbine.net Forums

    Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not recommended for LE use and many savvy agencies prohibit them.

    While both the .380 ACP and .38 sp can obviously be lethal; the .38 sp is more likely to incapacitate an attacker when used in a BUG role.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichSteve View Post
    I do not see how a 38sp +P is more effective than a 380, they are the same size in diameter, there velocity is the same 20-30 FPS difference, the 380 has 7 rounds on board compared to 5. The 380 is the diameter as the 9mm, for sure the 9mm is moving 200-300FPS faster than the 380 so it is going to do more damage. I believe in bullet placement over bullet performance, I know you need the most you can get, however, all pistol caliber suck at Self-Defense.
    You forgot taking mass into account there... .38 special tends to have heavier weight bullets. Of course you're right, it's only a pistol which is fairly low on the scale of things.

    Of course, one funny story was taking a class with an older gentleman who wasn't exactly current on his methods...He was busy telling the class (and shaking his head sadly at my poor decision to have a 9mm before taking his class) how useless the 9mm was, and that the ultimate perfect personal defense weapon was a....38 special.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Array MichSteve's Avatar
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    You would have to explain the 9mm in military use is a FMJ, there is no expansion, the size of the hole is the same as a 38 or 380, so I don't know how a bullet that passes through organs knows the difference. I am aware of bullet weight and mass, but a hole of the same diameter is a hole.

    I do use Hollow Points on my carry ammo, however, I would be confident in FMJ if that is what I had, bullet placement is what it is all about.

  4. #49
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    I have had my Keltec P11 in my pocket all day. The trigger is far from pleasant, but I'm accurate with it and it's got a lot of 9mm rounds in a small package. All in all the P11 is good for what it was designed for, just not fun to take to the range.

  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichSteve View Post
    You would have to explain the 9mm in military use is a FMJ, there is no expansion, the size of the hole is the same as a 38 or 380, so I don't know how a bullet that passes through organs knows the difference. I am aware of bullet weight and mass, but a hole of the same diameter is a hole.

    I do use Hollow Points on my carry ammo, however, I would be confident in FMJ if that is what I had, bullet placement is what it is all about.

    You are correct in saying that the hole size is the same, however, a heavier bullet is more likely to penetrate to those vital organs than is a lighter bullet. This is especially true when dealing with heavy clothing or larger than average body mass.

  6. #51
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    Although an expensive option and a long wait to get one, the Boberg XR9-S might be an option to consider. Found this review as I keep watching how people like them so far.

    Boberg XR9-S Review

    production_XR9S_3256.jpg

  7. #52
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    I pocket carry my CW9 all the time.

    Though I have always wondered what a gun would look like if they made it the shape of the average pocket...like an elongated "D". LOL probably look more sci-fi than anything else but you never know.

  8. #53
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    I am finding the Kahr p380 continues to work in any pocket I try. I couldn't say that about my 642. I shoot the Kahr better too.

  9. #54
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    My current pocket carry is the Kahr CM9.

    It's ok. I wouldn't want anything any larger to pocket carry. Not a target pistol by any stretch, has useable sights, the trigger is revolver like (which is a negative for me) I wish it was a little lighter and smoother.

    I had an LCP but it in evey way was too much less of a gun then the CM9.

    I'm considering picking up and LCR as I think it may be a little better for the role.

  10. #55
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1818 View Post
    Bunching a shirt around a rig like a crossbreed doesnt work for me.

    That leaves me pocket carry

    I chose a CM9. Its the best of an imperfect lot....so far.

    The only problem with the kahr is the long trigger pull and reset.

    If i want to shoot quickly at multiple targets, the long reset slows me down.
    (double taps arent really double taps)

    The choices are limited as the gun manufacturers always will try to put an extra
    Bullet or two in the mag, which increases the heigth of the pistol to over 4 inches, which to me is The most limiting factor for pocket carry.

    A second extended mag, like M&P or SA is offering would give the firepower needed

    So..... My wish list for a pocket carry

    4 inch height or less.
    1 inch or less width
    If a safety is required, a SA style only
    A trigger that has a shorter break, and shorter reset.
    A trigger that is 5.5 to 6 lbs
    An extended mag available
    9mm or better

    The SR9C, COULD have been this perfect pocket carry, with shorter mag,
    Better trigger, less safeties
    .
    Thoughts?
    You want to shoot multiple targets quickly, but want a 4" grip height and 1" or less width?

    Good luck with that. There has to be space in the grip for the number of rounds necessary to engage multiple targets. Bad guys don't always go down with one or two shots.

    You want service handgun capabilities out of a typical pocket pistol? Ain't gonna happen. The closest thing to that is a baby Glock, at 4.17" height and 1.18" width. And many don't consider the baby Glock a pocket pistol.

    A pocket pistol is a last ditch defensive weapon that you carry when you can't carry a gun, like at a non-permissive work envirornment. It's up to you to decide whether fashion or firepower is more important to you on your time off.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Pocket guns are small LCP is small but not that small pocket gun Phoenix Raven. 25 Auto fit in just about any pocket.

  12. #57
    Member Array dean1818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    You want to shoot multiple targets quickly, but want a 4" grip height and 1" or less width?

    Good luck with that. There has to be space in the grip for the number of rounds necessary to engage multiple targets. Bad guys don't always go down with one or two shots.

    You want service handgun capabilities out of a typical pocket pistol? Ain't gonna happen. The closest thing to that is a baby Glock, at 4.17" height and 1.18" width. And many don't consider the baby Glock a pocket pistol.

    A pocket pistol is a last ditch defensive weapon that you carry when you can't carry a gun, like at a non-permissive work envirornment. It's up to you to decide whether fashion or firepower is more important to you on your time off.
    Actually i think it is possible.

    If the shield from M&P would have been released with just ONE less bullet...... It would have been perfect in this role.

    I may still buy it and try the smart carry holster
    An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ

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    ....Whenever I still can

    What non-shooter are YOU planning on taking to the range?

  13. #58
    New Member Array ja23skip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1818 View Post
    After seeing recent releases of new pistols for CCW, I think the gun manufacturers are getting closer.

    I think everyone would agree that when you dont have to tuck your shirt in, the options are many for
    IWB carry.

    Rigs like Crossbreed allows a wide range of comfortable carry. I am happy with my M&P45C
    For IWB.

    However, there are days that i have to dress up a bit and the shirt needs tucked in.

    Bunching a shirt around a rig like a crossbreed doesnt work for me.

    That leaves me pocket carry

    I chose a CM9. Its the best of an imperfect lot....so far.

    The only problem with the kahr is the long trigger pull and reset.

    If i want to shoot quickly at multiple targets, the long reset slows me down.
    (double taps arent really double taps)

    The choices are limited as the gun manufacturers always will try to put an extra
    Bullet or two in the mag, which increases the heigth of the pistol to over 4 inches, which to me is The most limiting factor for pocket carry.

    A second extended mag, like M&P or SA is offering would give the firepower needed

    So..... My wish list for a pocket carry

    4 inch height or less.
    1 inch or less width
    If a safety is required, a SA style only
    A trigger that has a shorter break, and shorter reset.
    A trigger that is 5.5 to 6 lbs
    An extended mag available
    9mm or better

    The SR9C, COULD have been this perfect pocket carry, with shorter mag,
    Better trigger, less safeties
    .
    Thoughts?
    The New M&P Shield, best of all worlds IMO.

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1818 View Post
    Actually i think it is possible.

    If the shield from M&P would have been released with just ONE less bullet...... It would have been perfect in this role.

    I may still buy it and try the smart carry holster

    Sooooo.....are you going to pocket carry, or do the smart carry holster? If you are doing the smart carry, there are a number of guns that would work. Grip height would be less important.

    The Shield is fine just like it is. I've never met anyone who wished for less ammo in a gunfight. It's a bit heavy for the pocket (24 ounces), but it will work if you dress for it. Fit the pocket to you gun, not your gun to the pocket.

    If you want a nice striker fired gun the same size as a CM9, the Beretta Nano should fit the bill. It is 4.17" high, same as a baby Glock, but much slimmer.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  15. #60
    Member Array JustinApple's Avatar
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    Bad guys don't go down with one or two shots.. Not to start an argument, but training, practice, and patience.. With SAFTEY good wise and knowledgable people to show you it's possible. Yes it is very possible to achieve a one shot stop. Gun? Caliber? Ballistics? Doesn't matter really. It's 90% mental 10% physical, and the rest are just your tools. After eighteen "18" years in the Army, trained with some of the best in the world, then joined Frontsight and learned I not only wasn't as "badass" as I thought.. Found out I wasn't even close. Train, practice, prepare, patience X 1000, then do it again. Me and my wife both carry Sig P238's thats 7 shots, 7 bodies, unless we are together then it's 14 bodies. Is that wise? No. Possible? Absolutely! In reality two well placed center mass shots, assess the situation rapidly, if the threat remains then one carefully placed shot to the brain vault will do. "pocket carry" hum..
    That's like a "BUG" gun yes? Everyone's pockets are different, just like my belly is from yours, I say carry whats comfortable for you, feels good in your hands, shoots well, and the rest is as much practice as you can get in and be mentally prepared. Be safe and hope you enjoyed my rant :-)
    RichB70 likes this.

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